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Old 14-02-2007, 21:52   #16
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Originally Posted by cat man do
Any more info there mate, I'll be in the same boat in about 18 mths time.
Contact the company of your choice for their fuel polishing specifications and schematic. Each company sets their systems up a little different. My system is fairly compact. However, my system uses an additional "paper towel" filter beside my big Racor filter - the fuel is pumped through both. The company recommends using only 'Bounty' brand paper towels. The paper towel container is about 18" tall and I need another 18" vertical clearance to change the role, so a total of 36" vertical clearance.

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We'll have a total of 2400l in 6 main tanks pumping up to a gravity fed 150 l tank x2, 1 for each motor.
Yes, the 150 l tanks are your "day tanks." That would make a well thought out fuel delivery sytem.

Quote:
Most times we figure on having about 1000l on board and the other tank's empty to save weight, and add to performance/economy.
I'm not sure keeping one tank empty is a good idea. An empty fuel tank leads to condensation inside the tank. From a fuel maintenance perspective, it is better to keep your tanks full in climates where you experience high humidity (which is anywhere on the water).

Quote:
We also want some form of fuel polishing system on board, and I really need to get the spot sorted for that ASAP.
You will really like your fuel polishing system. In my opinion, they are an essential piece of equipment on any long range ocean cruiser, especially a power boat.

Quote:
Do you find that you use a lot of filters?
No, I have my fuel polishing system for 5 years and I have never experienced contaminated fuel or dirty filters. I just change the filters as part of my normal engine maintenance. No stress, no strain. I usually leave my DC fuel polishing pump on 24/7.
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Old 14-02-2007, 21:56   #17
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Alohaboat, that is the first time I have ever seen someone else suggest a totaly sound and sober correctly written statment on fuel.

Dave, AlgaeX is the one of the makers or pushers of the magnetic thingy. I have not read their entire article, but in the first few line there was enough crap to put me off going further. they need to place a magnetic fuel trap on their word processor.
The other fuel doctor wasn't a lot better.
What I have always found is that the ones that are full of the biggest load of crap are they ones that right all the glossy big words. They baffle you with BS and try and make it look like science. They try and make the oil companies look like amatures and that the real R&D is being done by these additive companies. Some even go as far as suggesting that they make some special formulation for NASA or other top govornment agency like the instance of CG and the magnetic thingy.

Alohaboat is spot on with his statment. I say it this way.
If you don't have water, you can't get bug. Keeping water out of the tank is simple. As Gord suggested, that is filtering at fill time. High capacity fuel filters designed for tank transfer pumps are easily available. They are a 10u filter and mainly seperate water and any large crud from storage tanks as you transfer to the vehicle tank.

the next effective area to prevent water in the tank is to have a low depression in the bottom of the tank with a trap that water runs to and can be drained off every now and then.

I do on occasion dose the boat tank with Biocide. But only as a preventitive to ensure Algae does not take hold. I would only ever do this in a tank I know as clean first. I have seen too many examples of tanks being dosed and the boat off out to sea and then a nightmare begins as the algae now floats free and blocks filters up instantly.
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Old 14-02-2007, 22:33   #18
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Fair enough Aloha and Wheel's on the fuel polishing bit, seem's to be the go, if I google fuel polishing I get heaps of stuff, but if I search OZ only I get no real answer's/response.

I had sort of allowed for a fuel polishing setup, which I was hoping could be as simple as a fuel transfer pump pumping through a couple of water seperator filters and back to the tank I sucked from.

All being on a manifold setup so I could open the apropriate ball valve to access the required tank.

This was the poor man's version costing hundred's of $$$

All the stuff I've seen in the US sites has many thousand's of $$$ attached to them.

could my thought's on a system work?

Any info or link's to the home made version of ?

Dave
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Old 14-02-2007, 22:54   #19
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Not exactly on the thread, but my contribution.

I have 2 tanks - not an innovation or rarity I grant you. Some advice I was once given was along the lines of never fill both tanks at the same time same place.

Reasoning being if a fuel supply was contaminated at source, it could then be isolated on the boat and still enable me to run motor on other tank and get home (or where ever as necessary).

Not always practical or possible, but can't fault the logic.

Fair winds

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Old 14-02-2007, 23:35   #20
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Yeas Dave, a simple transfer pump and a simple filter. You don't need anything sophisticated at all. The cheap CAV filter units are just fine. (They are also known by many other names). They have an alloy top with 4 inlet configurations. A simple but very good cartridge filter. The filters are a standard secondary filter used on almost all engines. And then a glass bowl underneath with a small "tap" at the bottom to drain water. I would use two of those and a small electric fuel lift pump. I actually use electric fuel pumps from cars. Our students wreck cars for part of their course and I use all sorts of goodies for differeing uses. Some fuel pumps are great. Especially the ones designed for continuouse running for EFI. The pumps that pump to a carb often don't like running continuose.

Steve, yeah I can't fault that logic either, apart from it is not praticle for me in most situations.
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Old 15-02-2007, 01:11   #21
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Brand and model of pump?

alohaboat
Could you let us know which brand and model of pump you are using?
I did a temporary setup with an electric lift pump from my local truck stop and the thing carked it after an hours use.
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Old 15-02-2007, 01:18   #22
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Chris, you may have had one that doesn't like open flow for continuouse use. They seem to over heat and take the legs up position.
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Old 15-02-2007, 05:15   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do
Does anyone know of a Baja style of filter that can cope with the amount of fuel coming from the fuel dock nozzle.?
I imagine it would take day's to pour a couple of thousand litres through a hand held funnel.


Dave asks a good question.

The Racor Fuel Filter Funnel #RFF15C or Shurhold Industries "Mr. Funnel" #F15
(both @ 10" H x 8.5" diameter) filtres/pass* about 15gpm.

The much more expensive Baja Filter (@ 18"H x 6.5" dia.) only has a maximum flow rate of about 4gpm.

* These filters are capable of removing free water and solids down to .005 inch but will not remove emulsified water; which requires a turbine type water separator (Racor "Spin-On", et al).

In "thirstier" applications (larger fuel capacities), it may not be practical to pre-filtre [u]all[/u\ your fuel yourself; but you can pre-test the supplyer's fuel. Run the first few gallons of fuel through a filtre-funnel, then inspect the funnel for contamiation. Only then (if relatively clean*) pump directly into your tank. I'd recommend supplementary test samples ever 50 gallons or so.

* If, however, you find any contamination, I'd recommend slowing down and using the funnel for the whole refueling process, or seek another source.

Boats with larger tankage are likely capable of installing more sophisticated on-board filtering schemes, hence somewhat less liable to fuel problems.


Practical Sailor on "Deck-Fill Fuel Filters"
Fuel Filter Article
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Old 15-02-2007, 05:18   #24
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Originally Posted by Chris31415
alohaboat
Could you let us know which brand and model of pump you are using?
No, I'm sorry, I can't do that. I have a conflict of interest when it comes to this particular fuel polishing company. Since I was working in the marine industry before retiring, I received a lot of equipment free or at reduced prices in order to 'test' or perhaps promote their products. Such is the case with my fuel polishing system.

There are many good polishing systems out there. A simple phone call or email to any of them should get you loads of information to the point where you can build your own. Ask for a copy of their schematics. Yes they are relatively simple to build but I advise against using inexpensive automative pumps and equipment.

My system is well engineered, nicely finished, and gave lots of "wow" factor in the engine room when my boat was on the boat show circuit. I don't have stand up head room in my e.r. but I do have sit up room with benches all around the engine so there is plenty of room to work on and enjoy the beauty of everything related to the engine.
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Old 15-02-2007, 05:26   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kidson
Some advice I was once given was along the lines of never fill both tanks at the same time same place.

Reasoning being if a fuel supply was contaminated at source, it could then be isolated on the boat and still enable me to run motor on other tank and get home (or where ever as necessary).

Not always practical or possible, but can't fault the logic.
Exactly! Very logical but rarely practical. Depending on how many gallons you cary in each tank, you will have to switch from tank to tank for trim on a long distance voyage. And if you do run some bad fuel from one tank through your filters and they clog, it doesn't matter how much good fuel you have in the other tank. Therefore, I believe in starting with good fuel right from the git go.
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Old 15-02-2007, 05:39   #26
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alohaboat:
It appears that you have "tested" this particular system, and having found the product satisfactory, could be excused for moving on to the next stage, and prommoting a good solution to a common problem. Of course, I cannot presume to know your specific situation, nor the details of any possible conflict of interest. My comment is directed, only to the view from our side of the equation.

I agree with alohaboat, that it wouldn't be wise to keep fuel tanks empty, at least for "shorter" durations.

If, however, exigencies dictate an empty tank, for "longer" periods, you might consider proper de-commisioning of the empty tank, with an inert gas.

Also like alohaboat, I suspect that the dead carcasses of the "hum-bugs" (killed by biocides) can be just as problematic as the live bugs. I have no specific "proof" of this suspicion.

Good thread, /w good info' ...
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Old 15-02-2007, 05:43   #27
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Originally Posted by cat man do
Any info or link's to the home made version of ?
Here ya go....

Captn Wil's Fuel Polishing System: Trawlers & Trawlering How To

Good luck
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Old 15-02-2007, 06:05   #28
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Well done Gord and Aloha, you've earned yourselves a beer from me.

Thank you very much.

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Old 15-02-2007, 11:24   #29
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It appears that you have "tested" this particular system, and having found the product satisfactory, could be excused for moving on to the next stage, and prommoting a good solution to a common problem.

It appears that the Site Administrator has given me permission to reveal the company. The company is Gold Coast Filters. I was given a substantial discount on the price of their product. However, I do not receive any compensation for promoting their product and I am no longer involved in the marine industry. I am retired! You can go to their site and all the schematics are there with a parts list. Between my 'how to' link above and Gold Coast Filters site, you can easily get all the information to build one yourself. I use the Walbro fuel pump and it has worked flawlessly.

Quote:
I suspect that the dead carcasses of the "hum-bugs" (killed by biocides) can be just as problematic as the live bugs. I have no specific "proof" of this suspicion.
There is all kinds of anecdotal evidence that this is exactly what happens. The problem is that the dead bugs fall to the bottom of the tank and lie in wait for that next storm when they get stirred up in heavy seas. That is when you are most likely to need your engine, even on a sailboat. And that is when they clog your filters and shut down your engine. Not a good situation in storm conditions. In my opinion, biocides are a bad idea.
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Old 15-02-2007, 20:09   #30
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Aloha, Aloha, Was that Gold Coast Filters you meant or did you mean Gulf Coast filters ?

Fuel Polishing

Here's another poor man's system with lot's of pic's to help the diesel challenged like me.

Ariel - Cape Dory 36 - Projects - Fuel Schematics

Dave
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