Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-05-2015, 06:32   #31
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,953
Images: 6
Re: Considering a Hydrogen Generator as fuel Suppliment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
"excess dc amps" refers to the amps available above the amps necessary for powering lights, etc., and charging.
Again, I really don't wish to offend, but it does not matter how you try to explain it, there are no "excess amps." None. Nada. Not a single one.

The more amps you draw from the alternator, the more energy it takes to turn it. Drawing almost no amps--very little resistance to turning. Drawing lots of amps--very MUCH resistance to turning. Where does the energy come from to overcome that additional resistance to turning? From burning fuel.

Again, this is the mistake that a huge number of people make, so at least you are not alone. They think that it always takes the same amount of effort to turn the alternator, and that it always produces the same amount of output when it is spinning. If that were the case then, yes, there would be "excess amps." But that is NOT THE CASE! The more electricity you draw out, the more energy you have to put into spinning it.

But let's just cut to the bottom line here. As someone else said, if this thing worked every car manufacturer out there would be putting them in their vehicles. Everyone--and I do mean EVERYONE!--is trying to get more mileage out of their cars. It is one of the main selling points for cars nowadays. If this worked, the first company to start putting it in their cars would make a fortune. They would virtually corner the market overnight.

So why is it that no one puts these in their cars? Wait. Let me guess. It's some grand conspiracy involving the gas companies. Right?

Point two: if this worked the inventor would have already been awarded the Nobel Prize in physics. For this to work the most thoroughly tested, clearly understood, and completely proven law in all of science would have to be wrong. Wrong. Not just off a bit, but completely and absolutely wrong. Anyone who can prove that to be the case is absolutely guaranteed to win the Nobel Prize. They will be front-page news in ever media outlet in the world. And they will have every company in the world begging to throw billions of dollars at them in exchange for their knowledge.

So, again, why is it that no one has won the Nobel Prize, been front-page news, etc.? Another conspiracy?

Don't mean to burst the bubble of those who desperately want to believe, but this is all nothing more than a scam. Again, please do not fall for it.
__________________

__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 08:18   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Pensacola Florida
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40
Posts: 174
Re: Considering a Hydrogen Generator as fuel Suppliment

Unless someone has figured out a way around the basic laws of physics, there is no "free" energy. There are, however, ways to take advantage of energy that has no fuel cost, solar and wind.

We move our sailboats through the water with free energy, discounting the cost of sails and all that other West Marine stuff we have to buy. We recharge our battery banks with free sunlight and run our refrigerators, instruments, and lights with it.

Since we have supplies of energy which do not require us to purchase fuel, is there not a way to use electricity to desalinate sea water other than pushing it through a membrane? It seems rather straight-forward to produce hydrogen via electrolysis, so could we use a fuel cell to then convert the hydrogen and air to produce fresh water and use the recovered electricity from the fuel cell to help with the process? Yes, I know the power from the fuel cell with be less than the power required for the electrolysis, no perpetual motion implied.

Is there some other way to produce fresh water using the "free" electricity from our solar panels and wind generators other than reverse osmosis? I imagine you'd need the electrolysis unit, a pump to feed the fuel cell, and the fuel cell itself. Is this possible? Practical? Safe? Is there another way to remove the salt with the "free" electricity?

I think we'd all love a simple water maker that did not require the expense and maintenance of the reverse osmosis units.

Fair winds,

Leo
__________________

__________________
Leo Ticheli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 08:35   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Winters cruising; summers Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 1,239
Re: Considering a Hydrogen Generator as fuel Suppliment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Ticheli View Post
It seems rather straight-forward to produce hydrogen via electrolysis, so could we use a fuel cell to then convert the hydrogen and air to produce fresh water and use the recovered electricity from the fuel cell to help with the process?

I think we'd all love a simple water maker that did not require the expense and maintenance of the reverse osmosis unit.
Leo - go ahead and figure out your electrolysis fuel cell water maker energy recovery gizmo. I sincerely wish you the best toward this goal. Keep us informed. How do you think the capital expense will compare to the typical cruiser RO unit?

But in the meantime I'm thrilled with my 12v powered membrane RO machine that is very reliable and easy to maintain and free to power from the solars.

Dave
__________________
2Hulls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 08:43   #34
Registered User
 
LakeSuperior's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Boat: Teak Yawl, 37'
Posts: 1,581
Images: 7
Re: Considering a Hydrogen Generator as fuel Suppliment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Ticheli View Post
Unless someone has figured out a way around the basic laws of physics, there is no "free" energy. There are, however, ways to take advantage of energy that has no fuel cost, solar and wind.

We move our sailboats through the water with free energy, discounting the cost of sails and all that other West Marine stuff we have to buy. We recharge our battery banks with free sunlight and run our refrigerators, instruments, and lights with it.

Since we have supplies of energy which do not require us to purchase fuel, is there not a way to use electricity to desalinate sea water other than pushing it through a membrane? It seems rather straight-forward to produce hydrogen via electrolysis, so could we use a fuel cell to then convert the hydrogen and air to produce fresh water and use the recovered electricity from the fuel cell to help with the process? Yes, I know the power from the fuel cell with be less than the power required for the electrolysis, no perpetual motion implied.

Is there some other way to produce fresh water using the "free" electricity from our solar panels and wind generators other than reverse osmosis? I imagine you'd need the electrolysis unit, a pump to feed the fuel cell, and the fuel cell itself. Is this possible? Practical? Safe? Is there another way to remove the salt with the "free" electricity?

I think we'd all love a simple water maker that did not require the expense and maintenance of the reverse osmosis units.

Fair winds,

Leo
Look into a closed unit type of distillation process powered by solar. This could be made fairly efficient using seawater cooling and solar heating. Seems like a simple unit could be designed that just sits there and makes water whenever there are conditions to create a good temperature gradient.
__________________
LakeSuperior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 13:09   #35
Registered User
 
jheldatksuedu's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: On my boat, Manhattan, Kansas or LaBelle, Florida
Boat: 45 custom steel ketch-Steelin Time
Posts: 396
Images: 6
Re: Considering a Hydrogen Generator as fuel Suppliment

Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
Look into a closed unit type of distillation process powered by solar. This could be made fairly efficient using seawater cooling and solar heating. Seems like a simple unit could be designed that just sits there and makes water whenever there are conditions to create a good temperature gradient.
A solar powered still to desalinate water can produce enough to keep you barely alive but one big enough to really provide all the water you want would be too large for a reasonable sized sailboat.
__________________
A bad day sailing is 100 times better than a good day at work. www.jheld.mysite.com
jheldatksuedu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 13:19   #36
Registered User
 
LakeSuperior's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Boat: Teak Yawl, 37'
Posts: 1,581
Images: 7
Re: Considering a Hydrogen Generator as fuel Suppliment

Quote:
Originally Posted by jheldatksuedu View Post
A solar powered still to desalinate water can produce enough to keep you barely alive but one big enough to really provide all the water you want would be too large for a reasonable sized sailboat.
I was more or less proposing an optimized closed type modern technology and materials still with water circulating through a condenser and solar concentrators. The unit would be packaged to fit on the boat.

Consider I am making this unit up but I think one could do better (not waste thoughts) than cracking water with solar panels. The unit could run day and night because of the thermal deltas associated with cold sky at night and hot solar during the day wrt to sea temperature.
__________________
LakeSuperior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 13:31   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Kimberton PA
Boat: Cabo Rico 38 / Bayfield 32
Posts: 573
Images: 1
Re: Considering a Hydrogen Generator as fuel Suppliment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
I was thinking more a bladder around my ass, but I see your point.
bio-ass reactor
__________________
Saltyhog is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 13:37   #38
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 3,997
Re: Considering a Hydrogen Generator as fuel Suppliment

Interesting thread drift from hydrogen refractor to solar evaporator condenser desalination plant ideas interesting indeed
__________________
newhaul is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 13:43   #39
Registered User
 
nimblemotors's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sacramento, California
Boat: Solar 40ft Cat :)
Posts: 1,557
Re: Considering a Hydrogen Generator as fuel Suppliment

Well actually you might get better MPG by using an alternator drawing power from your engine to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will .....

You can probably tune an engine to make it improve with hydrogen added, but it would never be more efficient than having the engine run properly in the first place.
__________________
JackB
MiniMPPT Solar Controller
nimblemotors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 14:37   #40
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,063
Re: Considering a Hydrogen Generator as fuel Suppliment

Quote:
Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
Well actually you might get better MPG by using an alternator drawing power from your engine to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will draw power to create hydrogen to burn in the engine to spin an alternator that will .....

You can probably tune an engine to make it improve with hydrogen added, but it would never be more efficient than having the engine run properly in the first place.
You have the last paragraph correct.
__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 15:11   #41
Senior Cruiser
 
s/v Beth's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Valiant 40 (1975)
Posts: 4,066
Re: Considering a Hydrogen Generator as fuel Suppliment

I just thought I would chime in here and assume a false identity,
Being from another planet, I am amazed that you are considering Hydrogen as a fuel. Deuterium works the best for fusion, but your hydrolysis projects are fun to look at, as are your attitudes towards universal basic laws in physics and chemistry.
We will continue to monitor this website for more sparks of brilliance and possibly some real progression.
We will notify you when we think you are ready to join our alliance of planets.
__________________
s/v Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 15:31   #42
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,063
Re: Considering a Hydrogen Generator as fuel Suppliment

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
I just thought I would chime in here and assume a false identity,
Being from another planet, I am amazed that you are considering Hydrogen as a fuel. Deuterium works the best for fusion, but your hydrolysis projects are fun to look at, as are your attitudes towards universal basic laws in physics and chemistry.
We will continue to monitor this website for more sparks of brilliance and possibly some real progression.
We will notify you when we think you are ready to join our alliance of planets.
A little crass but right on the money. I'm considering ozone power.
__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 19:27   #43
Registered User
 
lonesoldier0408's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Boat: Luger, Southwind, 21
Posts: 358
Re: Considering a Hydrogen Generator as fuel Suppliment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence View Post


A little crass but right on the money. I'm considering ozone power.
Too late, we're already depleting it!
__________________
lonesoldier0408 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 20:03   #44
Registered User
 
jheldatksuedu's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: On my boat, Manhattan, Kansas or LaBelle, Florida
Boat: 45 custom steel ketch-Steelin Time
Posts: 396
Images: 6
Re: Considering a Hydrogen Generator as fuel Suppliment

Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
I was more or less proposing an optimized closed type modern technology and materials still with water circulating through a condenser and solar concentrators. The unit would be packaged to fit on the boat.

Consider I am making this unit up but I think one could do better (not waste thoughts) than cracking water with solar panels. The unit could run day and night because of the thermal deltas associated with cold sky at night and hot solar during the day wrt to sea temperature.
You can certainly gather more energy in heat with a solar heating panel than the energy gathered on a solar electric panel and you could probably boil the water with a concentrator, (mirrors or lens) but then you have to keep the thing accurately pointed, that could easily be made to distill the water and enough to live comfortably but then you have problems with salt and other material build up in the boiler tubes. I don't understand the night sky thing, sure there will be a temperature difference and you can get energy out of a temperature difference but not boiling water easily. If you are storing the heat of the day or the cold of the night then the storage becomes a problem using something like eutectic salts. But much like hydrogen storage is a problem, that would be too. So the problems are either acurate aiming on a rolling and pitching platform or energy storage both of which make this not very viable.
__________________
A bad day sailing is 100 times better than a good day at work. www.jheld.mysite.com
jheldatksuedu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 20:41   #45
Registered User
 
LakeSuperior's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Boat: Teak Yawl, 37'
Posts: 1,581
Images: 7
Re: Considering a Hydrogen Generator as fuel Suppliment

Quote:
Originally Posted by jheldatksuedu View Post
You can certainly gather more energy in heat with a solar heating panel than the energy gathered on a solar electric panel and you could probably boil the water with a concentrator, (mirrors or lens) but then you have to keep the thing accurately pointed, that could easily be made to distill the water and enough to live comfortably but then you have problems with salt and other material build up in the boiler tubes. I don't understand the night sky thing, sure there will be a temperature difference and you can get energy out of a temperature difference but not boiling water easily. If you are storing the heat of the day or the cold of the night then the storage becomes a problem using something like eutectic salts. But much like hydrogen storage is a problem, that would be too. So the problems are either acurate aiming on a rolling and pitching platform or energy storage both of which make this not very viable.
First, you don't have to boil the water it just has to evaporate and then condense on a cooler surface. It's all about relative humidity.

So at night use a directional panel type heat exchanger to radiate heat to the cold sky as your condenser. Allow the now warmer sea water to evaporate in the chamber and condense on the cold sky radiator.

You could get nearly 24 hours of water making per day in some conditions. Cloudy skies, like on the northerly Atlantic crossings, would stop the process.
__________________

__________________
LakeSuperior is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fuel, generator, men

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hydrogen Generator TheWatchman Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 77 01-05-2011 10:07
Hydrogen Power Conversion Flybridge 31 Engines and Propulsion Systems 1 29-04-2011 03:29
Hydrogen Tanks boat_alexandra Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 13 10-11-2010 15:50
High Tensile Chain Hydrogen Embrittlement akio.kanemoto Anchoring & Mooring 18 06-08-2010 16:05
using hydrogen fuel cell to improve gas consumption phorvati Engines and Propulsion Systems 53 03-03-2009 11:31



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:45.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.