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Old 13-11-2017, 20:03   #1
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Changing oil, no access to sump?

Got a Lister 3 cylinder, STW3
Want to change oil.
Have no access to the sump plug.
Have 'heard' the oil can be pumped out of the dip-stick hole.

Have asked at local auto store for such a pump.
Nothing obviously available.

Thoughts? Questions ...comments?
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Old 13-11-2017, 20:23   #2
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Re: Changing oil, no access to sump?

Google: Oil Extractor. There are various sizes and prices. Mine is a west marine and works great for things other than vacuuming out oil.
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Old 13-11-2017, 20:25   #3
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Re: Changing oil, no access to sump?

You have a few options. Oil change pumps- plunger type- are available at almost any marine supply house. Most kits- Par-Jabsco come to mind- have various hose sizes , one of which will likely fit your dipstick. Also available are impeller type pumps whose shaft will fit any 3/8Ē electric drill. Again, with various hose sizes.
Warm the engine up first, because the oil flows better then. I recommend draining the oil into a heavy glass jug like a Carlo Rossi wine jug( and youíll enjoy providing an empty jug besides.) A plastic milk jug or empty antifreeze container or equivalent are very light and the spring-like effect of the plastic discharge hose from your pump will too easily knock plastic containers over.
Get ready for a messy job- Iíve been changing oil on boat engines over 30 years and have used just about every device on the market in that time. The only thing that didnít make a mess was something that I wore out after 17 years called Qwikchange, no longer available. Groco used to offer a serious bronze body pump, but I gavenít seen one lately.
And donít forget to change the filter at the same time. And have plenty of shop towels handy.
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Old 13-11-2017, 20:32   #4
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Re: Changing oil, no access to sump?

Thanks
I am ready for a dirty job, new filter in hand
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Old 13-11-2017, 20:34   #5
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Re: Changing oil, no access to sump?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCruiser View Post
Got a Lister 3 cylinder, STW3
Want to change oil.
Have no access to the sump plug.
Have 'heard' the oil can be pumped out of the dip-stick hole.

Have asked at local auto store for such a pump.
Nothing obviously available.

Thoughts? Questions ...comments?


Try a marine shop they are different for good reason
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Old 13-11-2017, 22:07   #6
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Re: Changing oil, no access to sump?

Hi,

This is the one we use.

https://www.amazon.com/Koehler-Enter...ords=hand+pump


The red intake hose would not fit into our oil tube and tended to collapse so we got three feet of maybe 1/4 inch ID clear hose from home depot, cut all but four inches of red hose, and clamped clear tube to red hose stub. It is a cheap pump and we need to prime it before we start but it has served us well.

The oil extractor's work the best and keep mess to a minimum but are a bit big to store on-board. Plus they run close to 100.
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Old 13-11-2017, 23:47   #7
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Re: Changing oil, no access to sump?

The vacuum extractors are a lot less work.
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Old 14-11-2017, 02:41   #8
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Re: Changing oil, no access to sump?

The vacuum extractors work well with no mess. The only issues I have found are:

-The plastic hoses can tend to collapse with the vacuum once they have heated up from the hot oil. Just pump less.

-If your dipstick tube goes to the bottom of the sump, you can just get an airtight seal at the top and extract. If not, you need to ensure the extraction tube goes to the bottom of the sump. If your dipstick tube is straight think about getting a piece of rigid tube to ensure that.

The messy bit for me is changing the oil filter. Disposable nappies or incontinence pads and best of all because they are larger, disposable bed protectors make it very much less so.
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Old 14-11-2017, 03:44   #9
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Re: Changing oil, no access to sump?

The needles that are used for crochet- type knitting can be had about 12 " long, and 1/4" hollow diameter. Cut end off, fits the dipstick fitting on my Westerbeke W46.
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Old 14-11-2017, 06:16   #10
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Re: Changing oil, no access to sump?

You have "heard" right. Very few modern boat engines from the last 40+ years, gas or diesel, will have a drain plug in the oil pan or the "sump" as some are wont to call it. With rules against dumping oil directly into the bilge and pumping it out into the sea the utter geniuses in charge of the world who make these design decisions felt that if oil can't be easily drained then this practice might somehow stop. Because nobody would ever simply dump the oil overboard after painstakingly sucking it out through a tiny tube through the dipstick and into a jug, right?

I don't know if anyone has ever gotten into trouble for adding a drain plug back into their oil pan where it truly belongs. Is there an ABYC rule somewhere in their hidden holy rule books that you need an expensive paid membership to even read? I've carefully read my illegally-downloaded pirate copies of their electrical rules, but haven't read all the other rules where having a conventional oil drain on an engine could be a no-no. Would a surveyor give you a gig if he found one added by an owner who liked to change oil the conventional way like all land-based diesel and gas engines do?

I change my oil using an extractor and bitch and moan about what an idiotic system it is every time I do this chore, but haven't been sufficiently motivated to do the homework into just how hard adding a sensible oil drain would be. Perhaps if I did I'd be corrupted instantly by such an evil device and start draining my oil directly into the sea and not be able to help myself even though I never do this on my land vehicles. Perhaps it is just a phenomenon that only happens on the water? Must be magic...
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Old 14-11-2017, 06:44   #11
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Re: Changing oil, no access to sump?

Extracting oil through the dipstick using a plunger vacuum extractor is neither messy nor difficult. This has got to be the simplest, least hands-on boat maintenance job. A simple pump extractor comes with all of the potential sizes and snaps together. You do not need a motorized pump if you're dealing with a recreational boat engine, which usually have about a gallon of oil. The top-end models (in my opinion, Pela makes the best there is, but YMMV), is about a US$100, and can be at your doorstep in the US by Amazon by the weekend. Warm the engine, stick the tubes together, send the smaller end down the dipstick, open the fill valve, give the pump a dozen strokes, and drink your beer. Give it a couple more pumps, and when the beer is done, change the filter. Dispose of oil properly at any oil change location - don't pollute my sailing water like some guy suggested!

Changing the filter (every oil change!), is a bit messy but a couple of paper towels, a filter strap wrench, and a empty plastic tray (like use to package berries or mushrooms at the grocery) will make it much neater. Heat everything up for about ten minutes prior to changing - too cool and it won't flow nicely, too hot and you burn yourself - don't ask how I know about this.
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Old 14-11-2017, 06:44   #12
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Re: Changing oil, no access to sump?

Some folks apparently like to do things the hard way. A pump similar to this:



was included with my pre-owned boat. It does the job, it does it quickly and with no mess.

When you're done, you can flip the switch and pump most of the oil into the empty containers for disposal.

And if you're going to be working on boat engines, get yourself a couple of good books on the subject. The fact that you can't drain the oil out of the pan on boat engines is far from a secret.
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Old 14-11-2017, 06:52   #13
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Re: Changing oil, no access to sump?

I have one like Rwidman and it works well except when you accidentally hit the pump out switch before putting the end of the tube in a suitable transfer container. I also have a bit of a problem with mine being top heavy. Has anybody using this one solved the top,heavy problem?
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Old 14-11-2017, 07:06   #14
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Re: Changing oil, no access to sump?

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Originally Posted by J Clark H356 View Post
I have one like Rwidman and it works well except when you accidentally hit the pump out switch before putting the end of the tube in a suitable transfer container. I also have a bit of a problem with mine being top heavy. Has anybody using this one solved the top,heavy problem?
I put my pump in a milk crate and strapped it in. It no longer tips over. Except for once when a large wake took us on the beam. Large enough that it not only tipped the pump out of it's place in the bilge, it upset a cooler full of ice and drinks.

The "good" part of that story is, the pump landed on its top and broke the switch (mine is a Jabsco with a toggle switch on the top). Mine had a double throw switch. Push one way to suck and the other way to reverse and pump the used oil out. More than once I had pushed it the wrong way.

I replaced the switch with a single pole switch so it only sucks. To pump, I reverse the clips on the battery. It's harder to screw up that way.
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Old 14-11-2017, 07:23   #15
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Re: Changing oil, no access to sump?

Short stub of steel brake line the size to fit down the dipstick hole, a length of appropriately sized flex tubing and this $10 hand pump from harbor freight. https://www.harborfreight.com/gear-o...ump-61746.html

put a baby diaper inside a zip lock bag around the filter and, Bob's your uncle.
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