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Old 07-06-2016, 10:32   #46
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Re: Why Don"t Most Catamarans Come with Furling Main Sails?

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I didn't find that to be any answer at all. Unless you are saying that cat owners know what is best and therefore don't use furling mains, which of of course isn't an answer at all.



So why or why great cat owner is "furling not a viable or feasible"?



BTW - I don't have a furling main and am not defending them, just looking for the answer to the question because I would think they would be a plus on a big cat.

Why are you beating a dead horse? The question has been answered ten times already.


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Old 07-06-2016, 10:46   #47
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Re: Why Don"t Most Catamarans Come with Furling Main Sails?

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Why are you beating a dead horse? The question has been answered ten times already.


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where??
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Old 07-06-2016, 10:51   #48
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Re: Why Don"t Most Catamarans Come with Furling Main Sails?

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To us all excess weight matters but you are right there are cost trade offs. In our case since we were replacing old Kevlar shrouds, we didn't want to ADD weight. Dux is not much more expensive than dyform and seems to last as long. By the way our investigation showed boats that used it for diamonds had loads of trouble. There we stuck with rod.


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I am in violent agreement about "all excess weight matters" and it is a standing high priority on our boat as well... our boat had existing 1X19, I looked at dyform as well as Dux (Dux would have won out simply because Dyform saved very little weight for the extra expense involved)
Our standing rig is very simple two 5/8 1x19 cap shrouds, one rod headstay (which I reheaded) and a 1x19 sprit stay. I have one set of rod diamonds which I have not yet replaced and not sure when I am going to do that

I'm not ruling Dux out for the next change... my Cat sailin days willin...

Bob
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Old 07-06-2016, 10:55   #49
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Re: Why Don"t Most Catamarans Come with Furling Main Sails?

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where??
Sailorboy.. what exactly is your experience, background, intensive late night study of Cat rigs,dynamics, sailing etc etc so I and Neko and most everyone here can understand why you don't "get it"

Bob
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Old 07-06-2016, 11:13   #50
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Re: Why Don"t Most Catamarans Come with Furling Main Sails?

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Sailorboy.. what exactly is your experience, background, intensive late night study of Cat rigs,dynamics, sailing etc etc so I and Neko and most everyone here can understand why you don't "get it"

Bob
I guess I "don't get it" either. Why is reducing weight so important on a cruising catamaran? I can understand it on a racing catamaran or a racing monohull, but most cruisers aren't in that much of a hurry.

Please enlighten us.

Thanks.
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Old 07-06-2016, 11:17   #51
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Re: Why Don"t Most Catamarans Come with Furling Main Sails?

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Sailorboy.. what exactly is your experience, background, intensive late night study of Cat rigs,dynamics, sailing etc etc so I and Neko and most everyone here can understand why you don't "get it"

Bob
I'm positive that I have claimed no knowledge. Please explain to me why you can not answer the question as to why a cat can not have a furling main! Please post a link or something more useful of an answer other than that you personally don't you have a need for one.

I never really have understood why some cat owners can turn anything into a battle
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Old 07-06-2016, 11:21   #52
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Re: Why Don"t Most Catamarans Come with Furling Main Sails?

Ken, with your "I don't get it either"... you need to answer the question just above as well as Sailorboy
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Old 07-06-2016, 11:22   #53
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Re: Why Don"t Most Catamarans Come with Furling Main Sails?

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Ken, with your "I don't get it either"... you need to answer the question just above as well as Sailorboy
Just admit it, you don't know the answer! All you know is why YOU don't have a furling main.
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Old 07-06-2016, 11:24   #54
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Re: Why Don"t Most Catamarans Come with Furling Main Sails?

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I'm positive that I have claimed no knowledge.
Ahhh!... now I get it!

Bob
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Old 07-06-2016, 11:25   #55
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Re: Why Don"t Most Catamarans Come with Furling Main Sails?

REsCat,

Lot's cruising and sailing in all kinds of weather on three different monohulls 20ft, 45ft and 53ft. Only one demo ride on a Leopard 45, and the opinions of several cruising friends who liveaboard Lagoon Cats size 38-45ft.

But I'm very interested in catamarans.
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Old 07-06-2016, 11:37   #56
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Re: Why Don"t Most Catamarans Come with Furling Main Sails?

Antares sell about 50:50 conventional and furling mains.
Reports from owners on passages show little difference in passage times between the two.
The conventionally rigged boats were slightly faster but reefed earlier, the furled boats furled later and unfurled earlier.
A wash overall.



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Old 07-06-2016, 11:42   #57
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Re: Why Don"t Most Catamarans Come with Furling Main Sails?

aw geez, I'll chime in:

Extra weight in general on cats changes the behavior of the cat in all conditions. Pitching, sluggish response, poor sailing. Even or maybe especially as a cruiser you'd rather sail than motor, yes?

Extra weight aloft changes the heeling moment, and a furling main would certainly add weight aloft.

A furling main, regardless of which boat it's on, adds an extra dimension of failure mode. YMMV, but I wouldn't have a furling main, and I don't think I'd care for a furling boom either. Simple is best.

I think it's already been mentioned that the furling main would certainly be a performance loss. The mast section would certainly be heavier, the rig for the furling main would be heavier, and the sail itself would have to be cut for the furl, which I expect would eliminate battens, big roach and elliptical/square head. The weight of the smaller main may well balance the extra weight of the equipment, come to think.

People who like catamarans generally want performance, and weight and complexity would compromise performance. Just because I'm cruising doesn't mean I don't want my boat to perform as best it can, within reasonable constraints. If I want a heavy slow pig I'd just get a leaner.

does this answer your questions? Or is this thread just another troll from the leaner peanut gallery?
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Old 07-06-2016, 11:45   #58
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Re: Why Don"t Most Catamarans Come with Furling Main Sails?

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Originally Posted by Catalysis View Post
Antares sell about 50:50 conventional and furling mains.
Reports from owners on passages show little difference in passage times between the two.
The conventionally rigged boats were slightly faster but reefed earlier, the furled boats furled later and unfurled earlier.
A wash overall.



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Ok so the answer is: There is no reason why a cat can not have a furling main other than the same old same old argument for/against them.
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Old 07-06-2016, 11:50   #59
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Re: Why Don"t Most Catamarans Come with Furling Main Sails?

Ken I have been around boats both power and sail all my life(thanks Mum and Dad!) and own both and have owned large and small of both.
I have far more background with Monos to date but have done 6 charters(4 on large Cats), studied every aspect of Cats for 10 years, boat shows etc etc that I could before I bought one, got on deliveries, day sails whenever I could and still do some. I have owned my present boat for 8+ years and love it but it challenges me.
I feel that I am just starting to understand Cat dynamics as a whole (ie All aspects of owning and sailing a large Cat) but I am still humbled but what I don't know and am continually learning and that process will never stop or change.

I can't and don't have the skills or time to relay all that (little bit of Cat knowledge)to you in a thread reply but I know you are a smart guy and you presently have a gold plate boat and if you really want a Cat you will make that happen and will be informed of what you buy and have a good understanding of what your getting into with a Cat as your next possible boat.
I'm sure of that...

Bob
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Old 07-06-2016, 11:52   #60
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Re: Why Don"t Most Catamarans Come with Furling Main Sails?

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I guess I "don't get it" either. Why is reducing weight so important on a cruising catamaran? I can understand it on a racing catamaran or a racing monohull, but most cruisers aren't in that much of a hurry.

Please enlighten us.

Thanks.
First, you are asking a different question. He was asking about roller furlers and you are asking about weight.

Second, all cats are sensitive to weight - moreso than monos. Cats which have a bit of a performance orientation are particularly sensitive. They will have narrower hulls and more weight pushes more of them into the water. Condo cats have pretty much thrown in the towel, so for them its not such an issue. They have wide hulls that can carry a lot more weight without sinking but they have a lot of drag to begin with. Its all about drag and its increase when you immerse hulls. There is twice as much surface area put into the water for a cat compared to a mono when you push them down the same amount. This is very simplistic and there are a lot of other considerations and tradeoffs as well but that's the general idea. Cat sailors know it by feel. When our tanks are low and we have just done a purge and our bottoms are clean, we love how the boat sails.
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