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Old 25-05-2012, 02:52   #1
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Why do Modern Designs Seem to Have Really Small Saloons?

This is almost a retorical question as I dare say it's all down to fashion etc but why do modern designs like Lagoon, Fountaine Pajot, etc. have such small and uncomfortable saloons?

By this I mean, a 40 ft cat, that's build to take 8 people, bearly has seating inside for them and certainly not enough room to 'lounge around' in comfort. It's not space so much as my MUCH smaller 30ft Cat has proved, with my boat having an ample sized U shape sofa/dining area that a couple of people can lay on in supreme comfort with feet up while reading, watching tv, etc. but in a much larger and grander modern design like a Lagoon 380/400, etc. you can't!

Look at older designes like the Dean 365 or the rare Catalac 12m and you have TONS of main saloon space, modern boats just seem to cater for sleeping and outside accomodation with no thought for a family or other larger party being stuck inside on a rainy day.

The reason im looking and asking the question is that a friend of mine has been converted to cats by being on my little 900 and wants me to help him buy a nearly new model with a budget of upto £200k. Now, at that money we're falling over all sorts of 5 year old or less Lagoon 380's and FP 41's etc. but none seem to be as well layed out as my 18 year old 9 meter boat! Seems crazy to me.

If anyone would care to recommend a boat that does fit this criteria, ie nice large u shaped sofa area that can be used for lounging instead of just sitting upright and that is within 10 years old and costs no more than £200k, id be gratefull.
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Old 25-05-2012, 04:57   #2
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Re: Why do modern designs seem to have really small saloons?

Simon, I think what you're really commenting on is the charter markets influence on catamaran design. All I can say is that it was necessary. We all know what effect the charter market has had on the public's awareness of cruising catamarans. This has been very positive. So, we have to take the good with the bad.

I was able to go for a short sail on a Catalac 12M this past weekend. What a hoot!!!
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Old 25-05-2012, 05:59   #3
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Re: Why do Modern Designs Seem to Have Really Small Saloons?

simonmd,

Its all in the modern design. In the same area as you have seating.
Newer designs put three things, Saloon, Galley, Nav. Station. Everything is up where you get a nice view.
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Old 25-05-2012, 06:06   #4
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Re: Why do Modern Designs Seem to Have Really Small Saloons?

Simon, the trend in most cats has been to reduce the length of the bridgedeck in comparison to most of the early British cats. This reduces hobbyhorsing and pounding at the expense of some interior space in the saloon. Frankly, I think it is a wise trade-off. What exacerbates the situation is the prevalence of galley-up arrangements and, the combination of the two almost inevitably leads to less lounging/seating space than on earlier designs.

Recently, RC/Moorings have increased the length of the bridgedeck in their new 44; however this was done in order to install a forward cockpit, rather than to increase saloon accomodation.

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Old 25-05-2012, 07:28   #5
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Re: Why do Modern Designs Seem to Have Really Small Saloons?

Tradeoff. Small saloon gets you a streamline outer with room to walk around the cabin on the outside, less windage, greater speed and performance too.
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Old 25-05-2012, 10:12   #6
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Re: Why do Modern Designs Seem to Have Really Small Saloons?

Cotemar has illustrated my point perfectly with those pics, thanks! Look at the size of the sofa on the 900 compared to the 6 foot longer 36.

The bridgedeck is a valid point but I think it's the trend to having galley and nav station up on the same level as the saloon and cockpit. While this is better for entertaining, to me it still seems silly to have a boat that sleeps 6-8 having seating for 3 or 4!

Never mind, guess i'll just have to find him a nice Catalac 12m or get him to accept that my older and smaller boat is more comfy in port than what he'll end up with!
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Old 25-05-2012, 14:51   #7
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Re: Why do Modern Designs Seem to Have Really Small Saloons?

Its not about "modern" its just about design, the same choices always exist in multihull design. Different designers choices are for different reasons. Here is a "modern Design".
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Old 25-05-2012, 15:52   #8
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Re: Why do Modern Designs Seem to Have Really Small Saloons?

Factor,
Your absolutely right. The Seawind saloon has large seating just like the Catalac 900. Both have galley down designs.
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Old 25-05-2012, 16:26   #9
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Re: Why do Modern Designs Seem to Have Really Small Saloons?

Saw a pic of a Sunreef 72, that seemed 'reasonably' spacious.....
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Old 26-05-2012, 06:54   #10
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Re: Why do Modern Designs Seem to Have Really Small Saloons?

Personally, I'd never consider a galley-down boat. I just don't want the smell near where I sleep, nor do I want the burny bits in the floaty bits.

Spread your company out into the cockpit, ergo have a good bimini/enclosure installed. Problem fixed.
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Old 26-05-2012, 09:34   #11
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Re: Why do Modern Designs Seem to Have Really Small Saloons?

It is all a matter of choice, warm or colder climate will dictate in and outside space, many modern designs not made for charter have enough volume in and outside, the Seawind is a good example. we have tried to make the GreenCat 445 spacious for ex and interior but at a cost of sleeping cabins.
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Old 26-05-2012, 10:09   #12
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Re: Why do Modern Designs Seem to Have Really Small Saloons?

Fastcat435,
That stateroom look pretty nice to me. You must just have narrow hulls for speed.
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Old 26-05-2012, 10:51   #13
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Re: Why do Modern Designs Seem to Have Really Small Saloons?

Our hull length to width ratio is 1 : 12.5 but we build out the hull 450 mm above the waterline to get the needed inside space, this is possible because the weight is reasonable low on this cat see picture
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Old 26-05-2012, 22:09   #14
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Re: Why do Modern Designs Seem to Have Really Small Saloons?

This vessel has an interesting use of saloon space. Looks small at first with the lounge, but then when you see the table you realize it's actually quite roomy.

It's the Crowther 44. http://www.yachtbroker-charters.com/...tis%20page.htm







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Old 26-05-2012, 22:23   #15
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Re: Why do Modern Designs Seem to Have Really Small Saloons?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Its not about "modern" its just about design, the same choices always exist in multihull design. Different designers choices are for different reasons. Here is a "modern Design".
This is a GREAT boat. I chartered one in the Whitsundays and sailed the Great Barrier Reef. Plenty of space, the main door folds up into the roof for great inside / outside living. The helm/s needed to be in a more comfortable place. The kitchen is down stairs which is why there is more upstairs saloon area. Great boat!
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