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jdazey · 26-07-2016, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by magentawave

I was the OP so thank you for your input.

Sometimes there are good deals out there with Cross trimarans but I always wondered how well they could go to windward. I've never sailed on a Cross.

Does anyone else have opinions of the windward ability of a Cross with fixed keel verses a Searunner? I realize there are a million variable that can skew the results...

I raced aboard both a Brown 40 and a Cross 42 as well as my Piver with Cross keel and rudder. The Brown 40 was a very nicely built boat, and I would guess within spec. The Cross was also very nice but heavy (teak hatches etc.). My impression is that the Brown would point a couple of degrees higher, but it was a much newer boat, lighter, and better sails (the Cross was a ketch). I built the Cross rudder and keel on my piver with carefully shaped NACA foil sections. It would point with a much racier Cross 44 (42 stretched). Keep in mind that these boats were designed/built in the late 70s. Any of them would out sail cruising (and some racing) monos of the day.

There are some good boats remaining from this era and with some updating could still provide a lot of sailing satisfaction. Having said that, a Rapido 60 or Hammerhead 54 would top my list

and Stumble mentions the Hammerhead 34. There's one in Puget Sound that might be pried loose from its owner. It's heavier than a Corsair, but more cruise-able.

Happy hunting,

haiqu · 26-07-2016, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by 805gregg

Look for a Jim Brown 31' Searunner.

+1

There's on being restored at the marina where my yacht is on the hard, probably the only one in Australia actually. It has sailed internationally and looks like a great tri. If it ever came up for sale I'd be the first in line.

UNCIVILIZED · 26-07-2016, 20:03

The 31' Searunners have made ocean passages, & you see them come up for sale in Hawaii pretty regularly. Though as stated, they are prone to issues with the centerboard trunk. And I've seen one or two where the loads from the spar were starting to push the trunk out through the bottom of the boat.
Some of that's age, & some is design. So if you get one, have a good survey done first.

They're good for 1-2 folks, but you really have to watch the weight. As, for example, on mine, once I off loaded my library from the aft cabin to my storage unit, the ass half of the boat rose 1.5". And that was only 100lbs +/-

Realistically, they all could use transom extensions. As Jim Brown did to his 31' on the main hull. But even with that they're not great for loads. And IMO, all of the boats could use higher volume amas, for the extra buoyancy. Both for cargo carrying, & because as all 3 hulls on the boats are designed to be sailed with much of their transoms immersed. Often by quite a bit, which is slow.
Not slow in the miles sailed per day kind of thing, but as compared to boats which aren't dragging their asses that much. And it's noticeable in light airs on all Searunners. But even the 31's will tick off miles in a breeze, with gear onboard.

As to that Shuttleworth in Hawaii that you're speaking of, yes, it appeared to be a smokin deal. And Kurt's boats do come up for sale, but many of them sell by word of mouth, pretty quickly, before any advertising's needed. Though as with anything, sometimes you can entice an owner into selling.

Richard Woods's boats get listed with regularity. Though the vast majority of them are in the UK, which only makes sense. As many/most of them get built there. But the prices are reasonable for cats.
One other option with his boats is to buy hulls & or components from www.BoatsmithFL.com And I gather that they'd also be happy to build you a finished boat too. Which you can also do with Kurt Hughes's boats, & many others.

Edit: To me DB's being an issue hasn't crossed my mind, after spending a bit of time with Kurt (Hughes). Especially given how hugely strong properly built ones are. As, other than the optionally sacrificial tips, you're not going to break good ones. Plus with the kick up systems & the crash blocks. No worries.

Read Kurts stuff on how they're built, & how strong good ones are & why. Along with the info on kick up systems. Including Shuttleworth's. And get a bunch of design catalogs from various guys.
As for the cost of half a dozen of them, you'll get a decent education on multis. And it won't cost you any more than a nice dinner with a lady friend.

That & when I first took an interest in multis, I read everything which I could find, which was really insightful. And also, folks in the community are happy to help you learn a lot about them.

haiqu · 26-07-2016, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by 805gregg

Look for a Jim Brown 31' Searunner.

+1

There's on being restored at the marina where my yacht is on the hard, probably the only one in Australia actually. It has sailed internationally and looks like a great tri. If it ever came up for sale I'd be the first in line.

Redreuben · 26-07-2016, 20:18

Just because you asked,
In my part of the world it would be a Cirrostratus 10 Trimaran

Cirrostratus 10 trimaran for short-handed sailing offshore

In your part of the world I'd be looking at a Horstman Tri Star, We don't see many down here but I like 'em. However many do not, but then I don't like Sea runners.

magentawave · 27-07-2016, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

1990 Condor 30 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Nice boat and no doubt super fun to sail! Might be a little tight for long distance cruising though...

magentawave · 27-07-2016, 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

And IMO, all of the boats could use higher volume amas, for the extra buoyancy. Both for cargo carrying, & because as all 3 hulls on the boats are designed to be sailed with much of their transoms immersed. Often by quite a bit, which is slow.

Kurt Hughes told me many years ago that his issues with Searunners were that the ama's don't have enough bouyancy and the center hull lines are almost identical to Pivers.

jdazey · 29-07-2016, 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by magentawave

Kurt Hughes told me many years ago that his issues with Searunners were that the ama's don't have enough bouyancy and the center hull lines are almost identical to Pivers.

I believe Chaak (Brown 40) was able to the main hull a number of times before it went on the rocks and Kurt designed new amas for her. It seems to me that the bouyancy requirement was met. Having said that, Chaak was a much improved boat after all the modifications including amas, daggerboard, and rig. She took the Fastest Boat on the Sound honors from Invictus. After that there was a wave of ULDBs and Corsairs. The old boats became cruisers

Pivers, Browns, Crosses - different takes on the same West Coast multihull framework.

magentawave · 29-07-2016, 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdazey

Pivers, Browns, Crosses - different takes on the same West Coast multihull framework.

Right, but Norman Cross drew a much wider center hull than Jim Brown did for the Searunners. Cross center hulls are kinda like the hull of a narrow monohull. Lots more room down below but I wonder about performance.

jdazey · 29-07-2016, 12:38

One of the R series of Cross designs might be more what you're looking for. Horstman also designed some performance oriented boats. There was a beautiful XR35 named Mistral that set everyone's heart aflutter. But really, none of the old boats is going meet modern levels of racing performance.

So you started out asking which multihull we'd choose for solo long distance cruising. All of the designs discussed so far have made passages, all will perform adequately in a cruising context, and none would be hard to set up for singlehanding. Try sailing some of them, see what you like, and buy one in the very best condition you can find. My experience goes back to the 1970s in Puget Sound. I've sailed Brown, Piver, Cross, and Wharram boats, worked on building a Horstman, and always wanted a Newick. My personal pick from this crop and for your stated goal would be a Cross 46 stretched to 50. In fact we came very close to buying Moxie a few years back. The boat we did buy is great, but probably not something within your budget. We sold a house to get it

Cheers,

**boatman61** · 29-07-2016, 13:43

Wharram Tiki 30-38..
Low cost easy to maintain and low windage.
Your solo so no one to bitch about living in the hulls..
Outboard engine another plus

barnakiel · 29-07-2016, 14:32

A Prout, an Edel or an older FP.

A Privilege 36 or 37 would be a dream.

b.

gruffa · 15-09-2020, 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdazey

One of the R series of Cross designs might be more what you're looking for. Horstman also designed some performance oriented boats. There was a beautiful XR35 named Mistral that set everyone's heart aflutter. But really, none of the old boats is going meet modern levels of racing performance.

I think we just bought the famous Mistral!
We are in Queensland, Australia and bought a 35XR named Mustang. Sent email and pics to Ed Horr who thought it might be Mistral. I've also been able to get in touch with the daughters of the original builder, Al Koban, and their pictures seem to match a lot of gear and features of the boat we have, so we are near certain it is Mistral.
What a great find.

Jamie