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Old 24-08-2016, 09:52   #16
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Re: When the rope meets the windlass!

I've been sailing for more than sixty years, but gladly defer to your superior knowledge
All the best
John M
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Old 24-08-2016, 10:00   #17
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Re: When the rope meets the windlass!

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Originally Posted by JOHNMARDALL View Post
I've been sailing for more than sixty years, but gladly defer to your superior knowledge
All the best
John M
lol... bam... thought it was bout me since it followed mine, but after looking at other posts, i'm off the hook.
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Old 24-08-2016, 10:51   #18
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Re: When the rope meets the windlass!

The bridle has just 10 to fifteen feet of line which amounts to stretch of max 1ft because both sides will take the strain.
A hundred feet of polyamide will give you 25 ft of stretch in extremis.
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Old 24-08-2016, 11:00   #19
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Re: When the rope meets the windlass!

Correct on limited weight, and we can anchor in shallow ground.

Our bridle is @ 25' on each side, but it depends on your vessel/beam.

The 8 plait is a bit dear, but if the insurance covers it, along with the Spade A100 and the 15-20' of chain, who knows...

I need to get to the boat and find the make/model of the windlass, although I may very well pull it out, along with the very long, heavy elec lines. Even at 62, I can pull up our anchor and 100' of rode.

The "traditional irony splice" has a huge fan in Brian Toss! Thanks for that, although my meager skills would really be tested - I may hire that one out!

Thanks folks!
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Old 24-08-2016, 11:00   #20
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Re: When the rope meets the windlass!

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Originally Posted by Vasco View Post
Obviously from someone who does not know about anchor lines.

https://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/product...g/anchor-warps

I get a kick out of the product recommendations. These are for daysailors but never for serious - and sometimes dangerous - cruising and anchoring in real life waters.
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Old 24-08-2016, 11:03   #21
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Re: When the rope meets the windlass!

Re: When the rope meets the windlass!
Correct on limited weight, and we can anchor in shallow ground.

So what if there is no shallow water - except on the reef. And the anch has 50 to 60 ft down below??
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Old 24-08-2016, 11:37   #22
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Re: When the rope meets the windlass!

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Obviously from someone who does not sail. Do not use braided. No stretch; and you need stretch to absorb wave shock so you do not pull out the anchor.
Reed, this is a strange statement when (at least one) maker of 8-plait state otherwise.

Nylon Brait / Eight - Strand Plaited Nylon Rope | Yale Cordage

Maybe you're referring to double/triple braided rope rather than the 8-plait stuff? Yale's 8-plait stretches by 10% at its working load where their double braid only stretches to 7%. They don't make a triple braid.
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Old 24-08-2016, 11:47   #23
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Re: When the rope meets the windlass!

There is three strand, 6 strand, 8 strand and various braided constructions. All will stretch, it's the material they are made of as much as the construction that determines stretch. Nylon stretches more than Dacron, the exotics stretch less to virtually none. The problem with braided rope, not 3, 6, 8, strand is it is more prone to damage by chafe. Chafe is the reason that rope rodes fail in almost all circumstances. So be aware of the terminology. Braided line usually refers to line made with a fine braid like your sheets and halyards. 6, 8, and maybe even 12 strand are colloquially called Brait because they are supple like braid but still a 'stranded' type of line. Don't understand why you couldn't use 3 strand in a windlass. It may even work better. You are still using a rope to chain splice to join the two together.

3 strand rope is the best bang for the buck. It resists chafe, is easy to splice, but is bulky to store, tangles and hockles too easily. 6 and 8 strand compact down taking way less space to store and don't seem to stiffen/harden like 3 strand. Can get 1 1/2 times the length of 8 strand than 3 strand in the bag I store the stern anchor line in as an example.

One issue with 8 strand is it so supple it may cause issues with the rope/chain capstan. The 8 strand rode won't strip off the gypsy without some intervention while three strand worked just fine. Have to use a screw driver to assist the release of the 8 strand from the gypsy. Locked up the windlass right quick till I discovered the problem and the 'fix'.
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Old 24-08-2016, 12:20   #24
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Re: When the rope meets the windlass!

For those who only anchor in calm seas and mild winds, use whatever you like. If you want to prepare for stormy conditions in less than perfect holding grounds, you need to make sure your anchor rode has the ability to stretch under load to absorb the surge shocks that would otherwise get transferred directly to your anchor; potentially pulling it out of its set. An all chain rode is best since the weight of the chain acts as a natural "spring" to take up the extra loadings. Eventually even that may not be enough so you also use elastic cords that will elongate under really heavy loads, like 1000 pound loads. That should provide an extra degree of slack.
Its also important to remember you want to reduce shock loads not only to the anchor but also to whatever your rode is fasten to on deck. We saw a Hudson Force Fifty's windlass get pulled out of the fore deck well during a hurricane. All chain had reached its limit and the extra loading was enough to rip out the windlass. Big boats like tugs use chain wrapped around tractor tires which are then fastened with more chain to deck bollards. Have seen those tires really elongate during a typhoon in Hong Kong.

So bottom line boys and girls. Do not go long distance cruising. Stay near shore and you will be find with braided lines, short chains, and tiny anchors.
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Old 24-08-2016, 12:36   #25
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Re: When the rope meets the windlass!

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Originally Posted by k. michael marquardt View Post
Re: When the rope meets the windlass!
Correct on limited weight, and we can anchor in shallow ground.

So what if there is no shallow water - except on the reef. And the anch has 50 to 60 ft down below??
Ahhh, we're not so lucky - we're on the Chesapeake Bay, and even on our sail to Martha's Vineyard and back we were able to find 25' or less in which we could anchor.

Outfit for where you sail...
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Old 24-08-2016, 12:40   #26
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Re: When the rope meets the windlass!

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Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
For those who only anchor in calm seas and mild winds, use whatever you like. If you want to prepare for stormy conditions in less than perfect holding grounds, you need to make sure your anchor rode has the ability to stretch under load to absorb the surge shocks that would otherwise get transferred directly to your anchor; potentially pulling it out of its set. An all chain rode is best since the weight of the chain acts as a natural "spring" to take up the extra loadings. Eventually even that may not be enough so you also use elastic cords that will elongate under really heavy loads, like 1000 pound loads. That should provide an extra degree of slack.
Its also important to remember you want to reduce shock loads not only to the anchor but also to whatever your rode is fasten to on deck. We saw a Hudson Force Fifty's windlass get pulled out of the fore deck well during a hurricane. All chain had reached its limit and the extra loading was enough to rip out the windlass. Big boats like tugs use chain wrapped around tractor tires which are then fastened with more chain to deck bollards. Have seen those tires really elongate during a typhoon in Hong Kong.

So bottom line boys and girls. Do not go long distance cruising. Stay near shore and you will be find with braided lines, short chains, and tiny anchors.
Then what "elastic cord" do you use? For many of us, 3-strand and 8-plait is such an elastic cord. A big rubber band might be better, but I'm under the impression that they don't last long.
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Old 24-08-2016, 13:03   #27
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Re: When the rope meets the windlass!

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Then what "elastic cord" do you use? For many of us, 3-strand and 8-plait is such an elastic cord. A big rubber band might be better, but I'm under the impression that they don't last long.
Google anchor snubber.

I won't link to avoid being accused of promoting a product.

I use two for my bridle, one for each side.
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Old 24-08-2016, 13:09   #28
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Re: When the rope meets the windlass!

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I was informed that 8 strand braid was needed for my rope/chain splice for the windlass i use. isn't the stretch picked up by the bridle?
Many windlasses have a range of gypsies for different diameter line/chain combinations.
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Old 24-08-2016, 14:29   #29
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Re: When the rope meets the windlass!

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Originally Posted by LeeV View Post
I need to get to the boat and find the make/model of the windlass, although I may very well pull it out, along with the very long, heavy elec lines. Even at 62, I can pull up our anchor and 100' of rode.

The "traditional irony splice" has a huge fan in Brian Toss! Thanks for that, although my meager skills would really be tested - I may hire that one out!
Yes, it's tough to know what to suggest without knowing what equipment you're using.

On this splice, using new/newer rope helps of course. As does some kinds of hair gel, as you can use them to keep the lay of the rope tight, both when you unwind things, & when you re-splice the rope. Just wash them out when you're done splicing.

And on most splices, during class, Brion suggested doing a splice several to get familiar with a technique, & then throwing them out. As everyone will do a better job on splice #7 than they will on their first one.
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Old 24-08-2016, 15:18   #30
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Re: When the rope meets the windlass!

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Our 36' tri came with a windlass up front, to which was led 20' of chain and 250' of rode (rope). The problem occurs when the rope meets the windlass; everything stops!

Does anybody have a solution?
Ok just to get this thread back on track, have we determined yet weather your windlass has a rope/chain gypsy , and is a rope stripper fitted?

What size chain/rope is recommended for your gypsy?

Note we are NOT talking the capstan side ,if one is present, just the gypsy.
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