What is the best Catamaran to cruise and retire on?

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

Well--I do not think there is one definite answer because there are so many variables--but mainly it depends on one's ability to afford to buy and maintain the craft as well as have enough powered equipment aboard so as to allow the vessel to be sailed even if one sustains an injury, or to be motored to port if close to shore and sufficient fuel is aboard.

My needs are comparatively modest, so I lived aboard a 42 foot trimaran in a far greater measure of comfort and clutter than did most of my monohull friends. For a couple, a sound vessel of around that length or maybe even a tad smaller would be more than adequate. The costs rise out of all proportion to the size of the vessel the larger one goes.

As to the make of the vessel--it is hard to say. Some of the newer models are designed more for an easy lifestyle that super-fast passage-making, but my tri was almost always grossly overloaded and still managed to out pace most monos.

I would be plumping for comfort and ease of sailing with powered winches and auxiliary power generation. That means around the 40 foot mark.

I fail to see the relevance to the OPs question. I've owned two tris, an entirely different animal than a cat or a mono.

[sailorcherry]

One day I hope to have a Lagoon 38S2.
Checks most of my boxes and I believe is ideal for an aging cruising couple.

[Bean Counter]

The OP has not put many parameters around the question. So all I can give is personal experience. We are retired. We researched this question extensively. As we were going to live on the boat 365 days we wanted space and comfort and the ability to cross oceans if we wanted. Our short list in the 44 - 50 ft range came down to the following :

Lagoon 440, 450 ,500
Fountaine Pajot Bahia 46, Helia 44, Salina 48
Leopard 46, 44 , 48
Knynsa 48
Catana 47

The Catanas and the Lagoon 500 and Lep 48 and Salina 48 were just out of our price bracket, our final choice was between a Lep 46 and a Lagoon 450. Then it just came down to finding one for sale within our budget for the age and condition we wanted. We were ambivalent to raised helm v fly bridge and had sailed both before we bought. To me any of the above would be a worth while long term live-aboard cruiser and we have met many owners of these types over the last 3 years, the older models like the Bahia are not as roomy and well appointed but they are less cost to buy, but may sail a bit better - depends on your budget. For $450k - $550k you could get most of the above aged between 2009 and 2017. If you do a search on yachtworld.com there are 43 boats that would fit this description, the majority of them reflected above.

[danielamartindm]

In terms of "enjoyment and being kept out of trouble," most production cats will do the trick, with the general proviso that the experience and skill of the captain and crew are at least as important as the vessel where safety is concerned. My cat sails better than I do.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by kryg

I’m a monohull sailor, so I fully understand the need to get to windward. This request is for two good friends of mine, who are in fact also mono hull experienced sailors. Possibly because I’m older and I have a beard, they ask me an important life-changing question for which I have no practical experience, only monohull chatter to draw on.

And that is; What is the best Catamaran to cruise and retire on?

I’m looking to receive some independent feedback from the cruising form to draw on the best catamarans to consider say around 50’ which will give them enjoyment and keep them out of trouble.
My outreach to the cat community is my attempt to help them not make an error in buying a bad performing unsafe catamaran, which looks good in the harbor but not traversing oceans.

Thank you ahead of time, for your input and considerations,

Lagoon 400, that is what I have chosen for above question. Big enough for 2, can clean bottom by myself, just under 12m so marinas come relatively cheap, enough load capacity and storage. Newer model, as my wife alergic to any smells. Maintenance relatively cheap. We both happy.

Boat made like tank. And it does go to windward, sometimes very well. And did i mention it goes really well reaching and downwind. And many are circling globe so safe enough.

Some people have size complex and had to have bigger than neighbour, well then this one will not fit.

[CatNewBee]

We are at the beginning as newbees, we chose a pre-owned Lagoon 400S2 owners version 2-head.

It is a condomaran, wide beam, decent storage, many options installed - could have more cloth lockers. It is big enough for 2, small enough to sail single handed.

The admiral likes also the FP Lucia40, - it is smaller but fancy, the Helia 44 was just too expensive. We liked the FP positive buoyancy foam stuff at stern and bow that gives some peace of mind and probably prevents the cat from sinking. On the other hand there were very few used available for a decent price.

Lagoon is the market leader in mass production cats and hundreds of inexperienced holiday sailors charter them around the world and sail them successfully, so I guess they do something right with the design. Also they are quite seaworthy - lots of circumnavigations and passages have been done on those. If they provide enough space for 8+ people on vacations I guess there is plenty of space for live aboard of two for water sailing">blue water sailing.

But the main reason for the purchase was, we visited her and liked her, she was also on our budget. We also considered a L420, but she was too old and a 4 cabin charter version with skipper cabins in the bow compartments. Too much work to refit for blue water.

We also thinked about an Oranas and Liparys - but the L400S2 was a better choice I think regarding to space and gear.

[Bob24sail]

Take a look at the Nautitech 46 Fly from Bavaria, I just Skipper it from the Canary Island, Spain to St. Lucia, Caribbean and than to St. Barth. Price-quality ratio very good. You can buy better ones, but more expensive !! Link https://www.bavariayachts.com

[WWV]

Taking out factors like cost, I think I would go for layout and sail plan I like best but almost bare bones so I can add what I want while knowing every inch of my boat. If not that angle, then I go Xquisite x5 where everything is monitored remotely and lets you know about ongoing maintence, all bells and whistle's are already in there, etc.

My three cents....
WWV

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by WWV

Taking out factors like cost, I think I would go for layout and sail plan I like best but almost bare bones so I can add what I want while knowing every inch of my boat. If not that angle, then I go Xquisite x5 where everything is monitored remotely and lets you know about ongoing maintence, all bells and whistle's are already in there, etc.

My three cents....
WWV

X5 is a very nice vessel. But ways too expensive in buying and in maintenance afterwards too I guess. All the bells an whistles can break and to find replacement parts around the world for a proprietary electronic system is not that easy too. I prefer the old fashioned install with normal wires, switches, fuses instead of data buses, relays, electronics for all light bulbs / devices around.

[Catapault]

What is best ? cannot say.

However we bought a Lagoon 450 F 3 Cabin and love it. I expect we will keep this boat for a long long time, into retirement.

IMO, whatever you buy, get a 3-Cabin where one hull is an 'owners hull'. You won't regret it. So much more comfortable. We dithered on this vs price, but now having done it, wouldn't go back to a 4 cabin.

I'm in the club that loves the flybridge. It has its challenges in serious weather, but is fine. (everything has some challenge in some conditions). The rest of the time, it is great.

Regards

Mark.

[Thalas]

Here are the questions people seem to ask:
What is her beam/length ratio? What is her sail plan square footage? What is her max speed?

Here are the questions I think you should be asking:
How does she sleep? How does she ventilate? How easily is she sailed? What are her sight lines like when sailing or sitting inside? How easy is she to dock and maneuver? How intelligently is she laid out? How well are her systems designed for care and maintenance and reliability?

[henryk]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

Lagoon 400, that is what I have chosen for above question. Big enough for 2, can clean bottom by myself, just under 12m so marinas come relatively cheap, enough load capacity and storage. Newer model, as my wife alergic to any smells. Maintenance relatively cheap. We both happy.

Boat made like tank. And it does go to windward, sometimes very well. And did i mention it goes really well reaching and downwind. And many are circling globe so safe enough.

Some people have size complex and had to have bigger than neighbour, well then this one will not fit.

Ispend 4 years living on the boat in Martinique and had seen brand new Lagoons that just crossed the Atlantic and heard so many horror stories from the owners about quality of Lagoons. I would go with the South African product. Seen many Leopards with happy owners. Many Leopards have props on shaft versus sail drives . One friend owns a Leopard 42 and is beating crap out of it in charter, year after year and the thing still going strong. Watch 'Gone with the winns on YT. The sail on newer Lagoon 42

[chris mac]

Originally Posted by henryk

Ispend 4 years living on the boat in Martinique and had seen brand new Lagoons that just crossed the Atlantic and heard so many horror stories from the owners about quality of Lagoons. I would go with the South African product. Seen many Leopards with happy owners. Many Leopards have props on shaft versus sail drives . One friend owns a Leopard 42 and is beating crap out of it in charter, year after year and the thing still going strong. Watch 'Gone with the winns on YT. The sail on newer Lagoon 42

Nope, the Wynn's have a leopard 43 owners version. 2005.
From their website...

V Curiosity is a 2005 Robertson and Caine Leopard 43 Sailing Catamaran, built in South Africa.* She is a three cabin, owner’s version (owner’s version means it’s the 3 cabin, 3 head, not the 4 cabin 4 head charter version). *She is a blue-water sailing vessel that isn’t too big or too small but just the right size for us and a few adventurous friends.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by henryk

Ispend 4 years living on the boat in Martinique and had seen brand new Lagoons that just crossed the Atlantic and heard so many horror stories from the owners about quality of Lagoons. I would go with the South African product. Seen many Leopards with happy owners. Many Leopards have props on shaft versus sail drives . One friend owns a Leopard 42 and is beating crap out of it in charter, year after year and the thing still going strong. Watch 'Gone with the winns on YT. The sail on newer Lagoon 42

i know pretty well the issues lagoons are having, thanks for concern.

i think you better off spending time checking your keel connection to boat, than advising about cats. Keels fall off quite often, and cause more deaths per year than shark attacks. Considering how many swimmers vs how many monohull sailors this is extremely worrying statistics every monhuller should be aware of.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

i know pretty well the issues lagoons are having, thanks for concern.

i think you better off spending time checking your keel connection to boat, than advising about cats. Keels fall off quite often, and cause more deaths per year than shark attacks. Considering how many swimmers vs how many monohull sailors this is extremely worrying statistics every monhuller should be aware of.

Your retort makes me think about my ex wife. Instead of dealing with subject matter you feel a need to criticize the individual on an entirely different subject. He's not critical of you but he was critical of Lagoons but you don't have to defend them just because you own one, that's grade school stuff. Lagoons are the biggest builders of cats so they obviously attract a lot of purchasers and nothing the fellow had to say is going to change that. Let that stuff go by you, you'll be a much happier person. Remember you'll never get hooked as long as you don't bite.