Waves always look small on video...

[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by ctl411

May it also be possible they left that scrap of jib out to help keep the boat pointed down wind?

See for your self. I don't think so. The tiny scrap left is pulled back, not out as if it's working. And the jib is rolled really tight. With whatever they're trailing, that's apparently all they needed to stay downwind. Like that, the boat probably would have been fine by itself with rudders locked centered.

2 Hulls Dave

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by 2Hulls

See for your self. I don't think so. The tiny scrap left is pulled back, not out as if it's working. And the jib is rolled really tight. With whatever they're trailing, that's apparently all they needed to stay downwind. Like that, the boat probably would have been fine by itself with rudders locked centered.

2 Hulls Dave

I don't think there is enough jib sheeted flat to keep the boat DDW, its an old strategy to sheet a storm jib flat dead center to help stop the bow from coming up, sorta like a reverse riding sail but that's not enough to do the trick in my opinion.

[ctl411]

Dave, I meant to put it as a question not a challenge. You are probably correct. I would have thought the would have both sheets tight if they were trying to use the sail to keep the bow down. My thought was if/when the warps chafed through it would help to have a scrap out????
Thoughts????

[Polux]

Originally Posted by yeloya

No offence to anybody, just a curiosity..

I've sailed quite a bit of mono's and the max I've seen was steady 45, gusting 50 kts but onlly 3-4 meters of short waves of the Med.
With a catamaran I did surf for 2000 nm under autopilote in northern Atlantic, sometimes hitting 25 kts SOG, with my wine on table..
Would that be possible with a mono ? I tend to believe that with this kind of waves and speed, it would be very difficult to avoid a broach unless you helm very carefully at all time..

Ny opinion or should I rather post this question in mono's thread..

Cheers

Yeloya

A modern light mono with a fat transom (type of Open kind of hull) would not have a problem on the conditions you describe and can go fast on autopilot. Boats with narrow transoms would roll more (even modern ones) and will demand more attention on the wheel and sails.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by ctl411

Dave, I meant to put it as a question not a challenge. You are probably correct. I would have thought the would have both sheets tight if they were trying to use the sail to keep the bow down. My thought was if/when the warps chafed through it would help to have a scrap out????
Thoughts????

That tiny bit of sail is going to be insignificant compared to the AP if the drogue line goes. The immediate problem is going to be managing the boat surfing down into the troughs.

It's odd that they left it like that instead of putting a few wraps on it, particularly if it's blowing 60.

[svHannabel]

That's quite a sleigh ride. Thanks for sharing!

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by smj

I agree but better to have the weight centrally located. Important to keep the stern light to keep it on top of the waves rather than the waves being on top of the boat!

Totally agree with you. From first hand experience we got pooped filling our cockpit with 6 to 8" of water. That was from a breaking wave on the port quarter, not ddw. Though personally, if I was in that situation again I wouldn't have anything tied to my rails. We took a few breaking waves on the beam and they broke two of my stantions because of the jerry cans.

I'd also always remove my tender and strap it on the cabin top. Another breaker swept across my port from front to back and tore my tender near off. It actually bent my arch slightly because we had tied the tender to it also. Unbelievable amount of pressure with moving water.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by yeloya

No offence to anybody, just a curiosity..

I've sailed quite a bit of mono's and the max I've seen was steady 45, gusting 50 kts but onlly 3-4 meters of short waves of the Med.
With a catamaran I did surf for 2000 nm under autopilote in northern Atlantic, sometimes hitting 25 kts SOG, with my wine on table..
Would that be possible with a mono ? I tend to believe that with this kind of waves and speed, it would be very difficult to avoid a broach unless you helm very carefully at all time..

Ny opinion or should I rather post this question in mono's thread..

Cheers

Yeloya

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Sure its not only possible but it is done quite regularly with even faster speeds always under autopilot and sailed singled handed on top of it. Not sure about the wine though as single handers have to keep their wits about them.

Originally Posted by Polux

A modern light mono with a fat transom (type of Open kind of hull) would not have a problem on the conditions you describe and can go fast on autopilot. Boats with narrow transoms would roll more (even modern ones) and will demand more attention on the wheel and sails.

I'd love to see a video of that. Drinking wine in 50 knots of wind, doing 25 knots SOG, in a mono. That is incredible. Can they dry their laundry at the same time also?

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Palarran

I'd love to see a video of that. Drinking wine in 50 knots of wind, doing 25 knots SOG, in a mono. That is incredible. Can they dry their laundry at the same time also?

It does not seem to me that the Leopard is sailing wit 50K wind. With 50K wind you have lots of spray flying around and we can see very little there.

Besides the question was this:

yeloya:
"...
With a catamaran I did surf for 2000 nm under autopilote in northern Atlantic, sometimes hitting 25 kts SOG, with my wine on table..
Would that be possible with a mono ? I tend to believe that with this kind of waves and speed, it would be very difficult to avoid a broach unless you helm very carefully at all time.."

He does not talk about 50K of wind but about surfing at 25K. Does not also say that he was surfing on a cat at 25K with this kind of waves. That seems a bit risky to me.

Maybe yeloya want to clarify better what kind of waves and wind he got when he was on the Atlantic surfing at 25K and in what boat?

Regarding wine on the table clearly it is not the case with that Leopard 39 that moves a lot.

I hope this will not turn on one of those threads about the seaworthiness of multihulls versus monohulls but what I have been observing in many races is that bad weather suits better monohulls that can go faster on those conditions while multihulls can go faster out of bad weather.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Totally agree with you. From first hand experience we got pooped filling our cockpit with 6 to 8" of water. That was from a breaking wave on the port quarter, not ddw.

I don't think either it would work waves coming from the quarter. DDW is another thing thou depends some of the hull form how much. Anyway if the stern swims an inch deeper you won't know the difference if get pooped. I have some experience in this matter but nobody is obliged to believe me, instead why not give a try with a dinghy and observe the difference

[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by ctl411

Dave, I meant to put it as a question not a challenge. You are probably correct. I would have thought the would have both sheets tight if they were trying to use the sail to keep the bow down. My thought was if/when the warps chafed through it would help to have a scrap out????
Thoughts????

No worries, I didn't take it as a challenge. Such is the real challenge on forums when you don't get to communicate face to face. Many of these conversations would be much more neighborly, I bet. Even with the mono guys. Well, some of them...

That genny looks so tightly wound to me that I really think they ran out of furling line and couldn't take a few extra wraps. At least when I screw it up, that's what my genny looks like.

Whether a small hanky would help keep the bow down sounds like mono wishful thinking to me. Maybe fast, lightweight monos would benefit. Boats with big gennys or multiple gennys on furlers have quite a bit of "sail" area in those long sausages. I personally would not leave out any sail on a furler because I'd be afraid of the sail becoming completely unfurled which would be a disaster.

Here's an idea - why doesn't somebody go on YouTube and ask these questions of the boat owner?

2 Hulls Dave

[ctl411]

Yes hard to always "see" intended meaning on forums.
And what fun would it be to ask the guy first hand, ask questions get anwer. More fun to blindly think stuff up lol.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Polux

I hope this will not turn on one of those threads about the seaworthiness of multihulls versus monohulls ...

Yet as always, you're the one doing it.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by Polux

It does not seem to me that the Leopard is sailing wit 50K wind. With 50K wind you have lots of spray flying around and we can see very little there.

Besides the question was this:

yeloya:
"...
With a catamaran I did surf for 2000 nm under autopilote in northern Atlantic, sometimes hitting 25 kts SOG, with my wine on table..
Would that be possible with a mono ? I tend to believe that with this kind of waves and speed, it would be very difficult to avoid a broach unless you helm very carefully at all time.."

He does not talk about 50K of wind but about surfing at 25K. Does not also say that he was surfing on a cat at 25K with this kind of waves. That seems a bit risky to me.

Maybe yeloya want to clarify better what kind of waves and wind he got when he was on the Atlantic surfing at 25K and in what boat?

Regarding wine on the table clearly it is not the case with that Leopard 39 that moves a lot.

I hope this will not turn on one of those threads about the seaworthiness of multihulls versus monohulls but what I have been observing in many races is that bad weather suits better monohulls that can go faster on those conditions while multihulls can go faster out of bad weather.

Ok, I added the 50 knots because I figured you probably aren't surfing at 25 in low wind conditions. Maybe it was less. In regards to the question of was it a cat he was on that I can answer for him - yes. I don't want this to turn into a multi v mono either, I just find it hard to believe that any mono is going to be in conditions that rough and be able to keep things from flying around as you purport. Or even surf at 25 knots period unless it's a race boat.

As far as the believing the wind speed, I see a lot of spume coming off the wave tops and streaking. That's what's great about the video IMO, it actually looks as bad as it was and the crew are enjoying it.

[arsenelupiga]

to every non-biased average capacity thinking human, it is clear that in these sea conditions multi wins for comfort , safety etc against mono, even against super maxi mono.