Tri's or Cat's?

[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Where do you guys get this sort of info, all it does is show you have very limited experience sailing mono hulls??

So how do you do at surfing at 20+ knots?

[robert sailor]

I don't surf at 20 plus knots but I have surfed at 15 or so with no problems however if you get a good offshore racing mono hull they sail at 20 plus knots because they are always surfing. Yes some of the traditional full keel cruisers need to watch speeds because of control issues but I'm sure some of the early Cats have their own issues as well.

[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

I don't surf at 20 plus knots but I have surfed at 15 or so with no problems however if you get a good offshore racing mono hull they sail at 20 plus knots because they are always surfing. Yes some of the traditional full keel cruisers need to watch speeds because of control issues but I'm sure some of the early Cats have their own issues as well.

So you agree we're not talking about offshore racing monos? This is, in fact, the Cruisers Forum and not the Off Shore Racing Monos forum, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it verbotten to surf a cruising mono in beyond reasonable conditions at the risk of broaching, and potentially getting rolled? I specifically recall Herb advising his clients NOT to get in that sitch because it can't be controlled. I'd be pleased to be corrected.

2 Hulls Dave

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by 2Hulls

So you agree we're not talking about offshore racing monos? This is, in fact, the Cruisers Forum and not the Off Shore Racing Monos forum, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it verbotten to surf a cruising mono in beyond reasonable conditions at the risk of broaching, and potentially getting rolled? I specifically recall Herb advising his clients NOT to get in that sitch because it can't be controlled. I'd be pleased to be corrected.

2 Hulls Dave

Dave,

I might be a multi convert, but my last boat is a 50 year old design and it surfed like a pro, a Cal 40.

[robert sailor]

Many of those ideas are dated especially with modern spade rudders however it is always prudent to sail on a more conservative program while cruising just like it is in a multi.

[Cavalier MK2]

Ideas may get dated but the boats keep sailing on.....so handling needs to be addressed on a case by case basis. I thought this posting was on cats and tris not monos?

I used to cruise a uldb mono where 12 knots was not unheard of and it got me through some truly nasty weather surfing/running with the wind. Back then I also towed a sailing canoe that surfed better unless a drogue was fitted...one dark night the drogue didn't deploy and the canoe kept taking passes at the stern. Riding down the waves it would come in above cockpit height and we would have to jig so it would miss us. I really like being able to carry the auxiliary water craft on deck now.....

[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Dave,

I might be a multi convert, but my last boat is a 50 year old design and it surfed like a pro, a Cal 40.

Roger. I was going on what other mono cruisers had personally related to me plus what I heard Herb broadcast to his clients on multiple occasions.

I stand corrected.

So why not just run and just forget the other tactics? Or is there a speed limit not frequently experienced?

2 Hulls Dave

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

For those of you that actually sail the large cats and midrange tris, how afraid are you in big water? Have you had them in 20 foot swells? Do you have a parachute ready? What is your breaking point taking out the storm gear?
I ask this because my chosen cruising ground tends to get nasty without warning....

As others have said, swells aren't a problem, short period breaking waves are. Haven't been in 20' seas, but 12'-15' in both beam and following seas. Had one break on the beam, put a foot of water in the cockpit with the salon door open (yeah, that was dumb!). Good news, no more than 6-8 drops in the salon (not sure how the newer cats with no scupper at the door would do. Also got caught in 55+kts winds and the seas went from 6 to 12' in a matter of 10 minutes. We knew it was a cell and would pass, hence bare poles and motored into it, not fun, but was never worried (in hindsight should have run with it, but your only thought is to get the hell out of it). We carry both a drogue and sea anchor, don't want to use either.

[Roy M]

Looks like a particularly comfortable cruising environment, right?

[Cavalier MK2]

Absolutely Roy, this time of year during the cold snaps you want to be in before dark before the freeze hits and makes the deck a skating rink. I carry a bucket of sand and have no worries but then it is only a latex paint job!

[sparau]

Some interesting stuff in this thread, thx

Anyway, regarding building a Hammerhead, I don't know how the Newick Traveller 50 would stack up against it (I imagine pretty well) but there's a nice looking one for sale in NZ atm.

Used Newick 50 for Sale | Yachts For Sale | Yachthub

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by sparau

Some interesting stuff in this thread, thx

Anyway, regarding building a Hammerhead, I don't know how the Newick Traveller 50 would stack up against it (I imagine pretty well) but there's a nice looking one for sale in NZ atm.

Used Newick 50 for Sale | Yachts For Sale | Yachthub

If canvassed close to the Hammerhead, LWL being within 2', and 5000 lbs lighter, I would also say a good performance match. Definitely set up for cruising more so than the '54's. Nice find.

[sparau]

If you missed it in the ad there's a bit of footage from 5 yrs ago of it scooting along at 12-24k, impressive beast of a boat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmROnvKLoDQ

[Polux]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

....
20 foot swells are nothing....

Originally Posted by 2Hulls

But they aren't "nothing" in a mono. They're the kiss of death. ...

That statement is so unreal that it is funny. What sort of credibility do you think that has?

It is know that small heavy boats like the Westsail 32 have been in huge storms and have survived. Their storm tactics are just different from modern light faster boats being them monohulls or multihulls.

Now about a 32ft light fast cat surviving the same conditions a 32ft Westsail can survive...maybe you like to try

[Polux]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

I don't surf at 20 plus knots but I have surfed at 15 or so with no problems however if you get a good offshore racing mono hull they sail at 20 plus knots because they are always surfing. Yes some of the traditional full keel cruisers need to watch speeds because of control issues but I'm sure some of the early Cats have their own issues as well.

You don't need a racing boat to surf waves. Any modern performance cruiser will do that, even small modern daysailers are able to do that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNs2uGMrKnY