Tri's or Cat's?

[Mr Big]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I just hope it doesn't float anywhere near where the antifoul ends though. Talk about immersed transoms....

[downunder]

NA Christopher Barreau has designed a number of very fast cats.

Catamaran TS42 - Chantiers Marsaudon Composites

[Polux]

Originally Posted by downunder

NA Christopher Barreau has designed a number of very fast cats.

Catamaran TS42 - Chantiers Marsaudon Composites

Christopher Barreau is known to have designed many of the Catana, also the justly famous Outremer 49 and the new 45. He was a huge experience designing fast cats.

The interest of the TS42 is to see what comes up when somebody asks him to design an inexpensive cat with the best performance and cruising amenities as possible, with the incidence in fast and affordable. The result is the TS42, certainly interesting given the huge experience of the designer. He is certainly one of the more knowledgeable designers regarding fast performance cats.

Christophe Barreau Architecte Naval

[mrybas]

Originally Posted by Polux

Christopher Barreau is known to have designed many of the Catana, also the justly famous Outremer 49 and the new 45. He was a huge experience designing fast cats.

The interest of the TS42 is to see what comes up when somebody asks him to design an inexpensive cat with the best performance and cruising amenities as possible, with the incidence in fast and affordable. The result is the TS42, certainly interesting given the huge experience of the designer. He is certainly one of the more knowledgeable designers regarding fast performance cats.

Christophe Barreau Architecte Naval

Let me start off by saying I have almost no cat sailing experience, but wouldn't those fairly deep looking fixed keels be a potential liability heavy weather? Don't cats with daggerboards lift them in breaking sea conditions to keep the boat from 'tripping'?

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by Polux

The interest of the TS42 is to see what comes up when somebody asks him to design an inexpensive cat

TS is indeed modern looking cat, but I personally would not call her inexpensive keeping in mind construction materials used.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by mrybas

Let me start off by saying I have almost no cat sailing experience, but wouldn't those fairly deep looking fixed keels be a potential liability heavy weather? Don't cats with daggerboards lift them in breaking sea conditions to keep the boat from 'tripping'?

Yes, but then there are much more cats with fixed keels than with dagger-boards. It would make some difference but just a small difference. Those keels are not big, others have them much bigger and longer. Anyway that is only relevant in storm conditions and downwind running because if upwind they will need the dagger board anyway.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Polux

Yes, but then there are much more cats with fixed keels than with dagger-boards. It would make some difference but just a small difference. Those keels are not big, others have them much bigger and longer. Anyway that is only relevant in storm conditions and downwind running because if upwind they will need the dagger board anyway.

If I understand the specs correctly, those fixed keels are 1.6 meters (5.25 feet). That is very deep for a 5T 12 meter catamaran and represents quite a difference from similar LAR boats. 50% deeper.

But it is an interesting compromise. They are high aspect keels, so will be very efficient and not really that much deeper than shoal-draft monos of similar size. I wonder if the boat can be sat on those keels? Are they sacrificial? Striking something could be problematic if not.

Mark

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Polux

Yes, but then there are much more cats with fixed keels than with dagger-boards. It would make some difference but just a small difference. Those keels are not big, others have them much bigger and longer. Anyway that is only relevant in storm conditions and downwind running because if upwind they will need the dagger board anyway.

The only time you need to lower daggerboards is upwind. The rest of the time they are raised.

A fixed 1.5 metre draught, and the shape of those keels and rudders compromise two of a cat's great assets. It's shoal draught, and ability to dry out.

IMO there are Australian designers who do a far better job of designing good performing, inexpensive cat's.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

The only time you need to lower daggerboards is upwind. The rest of the time they are raised.

Well that was What I said wasn't it?

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

IMO there are Australian designers who do a far better job of designing good performing, inexpensive cat's.

I guess that your boat is designed by one of those Sure there are good Australian cat designers but your statement seems empty to me. If that was the case they would be produced in considerable numbers and sold and that is not the case.

Regarding the designer of the TS 42, it also designed this one, more expensive and with daggerboards, the TS 52.8. One of them had made 400nm on 24 hours and other had circumnavigated.

test TS 52 - Vidéo Dailymotion

Several boats were made and still are but I bet that the TS42 will be a much more popular cat and will be made in a considerable number, taking into consideration the type of boat.

The Designer (Christophe Barreau) is not only a great designer but a great sailor that on a one off that he designed for himself cruised the South Atlantic the Patagonia and Antarctic. On a Catana 40, also designed by himself cruised the Arctic going North of Spitsbergen.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Polux

Well that was What I said wasn't it?



I guess that your boat is designed by one of those Sure there are good Australian cat designers but your statement seems empty to me. If that was the case they would be produced in considerable numbers and sold and that is not the case.

It isn't? There are thousands of Australian designed cat's.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by colemj

If I understand the specs correctly, those fixed keels are 1.6 meters (5.25 feet). That is very deep for a 5T 12 meter catamaran and represents quite a difference from similar LAR boats. 50% deeper.

But it is an interesting compromise. They are high aspect keels, so will be very efficient and not really that much deeper than shoal-draft monos of similar size. I wonder if the boat can be sat on those keels? Are they sacrificial? Striking something could be problematic if not.

Mark

My thoughts. It is not a cruising boat as there seems no ability to dry the boat out and sit on those keels and the deeper keels would be an issue. Guess they are more compromised defacto daggerboards.

Would certainly be cheaper to build and not take any room out of the hulls that daggerboards would. May it does not have had room in the hulls for boards.

Certainly affects its cruisability.

But it certainly would be fast with Barreau's track record.

Polux, it is no lighter than some of the Australian designed cats 44'cruisingcat is talking about. Orams/Schonnings etc.

[Sand crab]

[QUOTE=Polux;1718476] Sure there are good Australian cat designers but your statement seems empty to me. If that was the case they would be produced in considerable numbers and sold and that is not the case./QUOTE]

That little company Seawind had over 400 boats produced and that was 3 years ago.
BTW The Ozzies are cat crazy. I'll bet more customs, one-offs, homebuilts and semi production are made there than the rest of the world combined. Their kits are popular also outside of OZ. When I browse YW I'm always seeing lots of their boats for sale all over the globe.

The Kiwis are a little crazy about cats too. Actually insane in general. There was that time I had 7 kiwis living with me in Breckenridge............

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

..
That little company Seawind had over 400 boats produced and that was 3 years ago.
BTW The Ozzies are cat crazy. I'll bet more customs, one-offs, homebuilts and semi production are made there than the rest of the world combined. Their kits are popular also outside of OZ. When I browse YW I'm always seeing lots of their boats for sale all over the globe.

The Kiwis are a little crazy about cats too. Actually insane in general. There was that time I had 7 kiwis living with me in Breckenridge............

The Seawind is not this type of performance cat. Yes you are right regarding one offs, semi customs and home made boats made with pre-fabricated parts but that is not a production boat that is what the TS42 is.

I don't know of any Australian cat shipyard producing inexpensive performance cats of this size with any significant boat production but I can be wrong. What brand and shipyard is that?

It Is about production boats that I am talking about no home made boat or semi-custom boats.

[Sand crab]

The TS 42 is 325K Euros. For comparison the Lagoon 421 is 10K less including launching.
So not really that inexpensive. All 2015 Lagoon prices here.
http://www.kiriacoulis.com/sales/lag...management.pdf

[deckofficer]

How about Polish boat builders? Just one more tri to throw into the mix. I heard about this company through a 30' motorcat they build. Displacement design and hulls that are so efficient that a pair of 50 hp outboards push it to 25 kt.

TNT34 - The New Trimaran