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Old 15-03-2013, 15:16   #76
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Re: Tried climbing in your dinghy from the water?

After watching the horrifying video of the guy trying, from an inflatable, to re-board the sailboat anchored off in an open roadstead off the Pitcairns (he repeatedly fell into the water, because he couldn't pull himself up to the guardrail) I wondered if I would have done any better, and suspected probably not.

So I tried to see how many pullup (chinups) I could do and was disappointed (but not entirely surprised) to find that the answer was: none.

Considering I could once rely on being able go up a backstay (provided it was a decent diameter, like 16mm or more, and not TOO steep) without having to use my legs, I was not happy with that. And I don't see why age should be an issue, heck I'm not even sixty.

- - - - - -

There didn't seem much point struggling to do a proper chinup when I was getting exactly nowhere. So I started off by standing on a box at a height which meant I didn't have to start with straight arms.

Initially I could barely manage five even like this, but I would do this a few times a day, then the next day I could manage six, etc etc, until I could manage twenty.

Then to my delight I found that, without the box and hanging above the ground with straight arms, I could manage five. I'm happy with that, but it's something I'll be keeping an eye on, for sure. (It still doesn't mean I can necessarily do it with wet clothes and cold muscles, but at least I've got a fighting chance, if I time it with the roll)

I get the feeling it was stomach muscles, rather than arm strength, which was letting me down the most, and strong stomach muscles are essential to pretty much everything, from posture and freedom from back problems to breathing properly.
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Old 15-03-2013, 15:32   #77
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Re: Tried climbing in your dinghy from the water?

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
I get the feeling it was stomach muscles, rather than arm strength, which was letting me down the most, and strong stomach muscles are essential to pretty much everything, from posture and freedom from back problems to breathing properly.
Aw, heck.... And I worked so HARD over the years to develop this beer-belly!
Probably have to reduce the tobacco usage as well....
Not giving up on the sunset glass of bourbon, though.
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Old 15-03-2013, 15:41   #78
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Re: Tried climbing in your dinghy from the water?

[QUOTE=David_Old_Jersey;1185992]I can't swim! - but am very comfortable in the water (and under! - PADI advanced diver )......

[QUOTE]

How did you manage that? It's along time ago now, but IIRC part of our dive certification course was that we had to be able (without fins or bouyancy) to swim 50 metres and tread water for 15 minutes.

Anyway, I can (just) get into the dinghy unassisted, but it's not exactly easy, and a bit of exhaustion could make it very dificult. So one of those boarding stirrups would be a good idea to have aboard, as long as it could be easily accessed from the water!
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Old 15-03-2013, 20:56   #79
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Re: Tried climbing in your dinghy from the water?

[QUOTE=44'cruisingcat;1186068][QUOTE=David_Old_Jersey;1185992]I can't swim! - but am very comfortable in the water (and under! - PADI advanced diver )......

Quote:

How did you manage that? It's along time ago now, but IIRC part of our dive certification course was that we had to be able (without fins or bouyancy) to swim 50 metres and tread water for 15 minutes.

Anyway, I can (just) get into the dinghy unassisted, but it's not exactly easy, and a bit of exhaustion could make it very dificult. So one of those boarding stirrups would be a good idea to have aboard, as long as it could be easily accessed from the water!
+1

Swimming without fins or bouyancy is not a requirement of PADI.

You may have done your certification with FAUI like me in older days ?
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Old 16-03-2013, 03:57   #80
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Re: Tried climbing in your dinghy from the water?

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
I can't swim! - but am very comfortable in the water (and under! - PADI advanced diver )......

How did you manage that? It's along time ago now, but IIRC part of our dive certification course was that we had to be able (without fins or bouyancy) to swim 50 metres and tread water for 15 minutes.
Those requirements sound familiar, I might be able to doggy paddle 50 metres if chased by a shark (a very slow one!) - but I would not bet money on it. Treading water for 15 minutes?, I have more chance of walking on it ......with the guaranteed same results for even trying (glug!).

Definately was PADI (both the basic and the Advanced) - seperate Dive Centres in Australia back in 1996 Airlie Beach and then Cairns.......how did I manage to pass? easy . I just mentioned before paying that I could not swim and had zero chance of meeting the requirements - but was very comfortable in the sea (boats since a kid )......didn't cost me any extra, but I figured in a competitive industry a willing punter is a punter - and I was right ,.........and whilst I will not claim I ever became a good diver I was by no means the worst I have ever encountered. actually far from it on the Australian east coast when tourist diving amongst the newly qualified......to be fair to the PADI instructors, I was clearly comfortable in the water (and I think those requirements as much about demonstrating that as the actual things themselves - 50 metres is not very far!)......My take was that with a tank of air and an inflatable BCD, pretty hard to drown simply from not being able to swim! (plenty of other opportunities though!).



Quote:
Anyway, I can (just) get into the dinghy unassisted, but it's not exactly easy, and a bit of exhaustion could make it very dificult. So one of those boarding stirrups would be a good idea to have aboard, as long as it could be easily accessed from the water!
getting tired / exhausted is an important consideration - and no matter how fit "you" start off everyone gets to the same point of being completely and utterly knackered and incapable of helping themselves - the only difference is how long that takes!

For those who have not tried to board an inflatable dink it is an eye opener on the effort / technique required, especially when you realise that would be doing pretty much the same if boarding a liferaft from the water. Despite those having ladders, as only fabric / rope they can never be that great - if nothing else should convince "you" to desperately try and get into the liferaft direct!

Also bear in mind that if wearing a bouyancy aid (per the pic a few posts back) that you will have changed from being a slippery seal to a whale!.......the bouyancy aid (bigger gut that does not flex!) can make it impossible to board on own over the tubes.....give it a go!
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Old 16-03-2013, 07:56   #81
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Re: Tried climbing in your dinghy from the water?

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
It seems that 90% of the macho posturing is coming from a single source in this thread.

In a more rational discussion we might be aware that some inflatables are more difficult to enter from the water than others. I note that Caribe inflatables cover a spectrum from 16" diameter tubes to 23" diameter tubes, the latter of which are substantially more difficult to climb from the water than the former.

Let's at least consider the possibility that the OP's difficulty exiting the water may have resulted from him owning a nicer RIB than the Arp Arp contingent can afford.
Well, thanks to all for the wonderfull responses to my post. After reading all I think Bash may have identified one reason I and she who must be obeyed could not climb in the tender no matter how hard we tried, the flaming thing is too high off the water, I do respect the comments that my upper body strength could be somewhat lacking for the task, I must point out that I am 72, yes I know should be in a nursing home, however I consider myself very fit still work 6 days a week running my buisness and pass a very stringent bi annual medical check to maintain my pilots licence I own my aircraft fly regularly and maintain a command instrument rating, I am only pointing this out to have a balanced view of some of the relevent comments re age, fitness and strength, in any event I think one has to have a reasonable level of fitness and strength to sail, it can be quite demanding two up in a 40 footer in a decent blow and one has to be quick and nimble around the decks. What is worth mentioning is that this is our third season with our Lagoon 400 and it is only now after three years through pure chance that we discovered our inability to lift ourselves in to the tender, it never occurred to me that we would have any trouble at all, I wonder if any other newbies have thought to test their ability in this regard. Just for interest I have attached a picture of my 3.3 Caribe tender with my son in it, may allow a comparison size to those owned by others in our group. I will be buying a ladder for our tender.
Regards Peter
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Old 16-03-2013, 08:07   #82
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Re: Tried climbing in your dinghy from the water?

I have found this whole thread very odd, because for me, my wife, and family, getting into and out of the dinghy from the water has just been a normal part of boating since forever. I find it hard to imagine that people haven't tried it, as just about the first thing we do on a hot day is dive over the side, go for a swim, climb up into the dinghy, and back into the boat. I suppose if the water is very cold less people would be swimming, but even in Maine I dive off the bow just to force myself to swim to the stern. You might want to add a wet suit to your boat's inventory. And, both of us still swim to shore periodically, instead of taking the dink, just to be sure we can do it (we're over our mid 50s). I understand that some have physical limitations that make this difficult or impossible, but it seems strange to me that there are many that do not consider swimming a cruising skill. By all means, rig up a ladder if that's what you need (I'm sure I will need one some day), and please experiment with how this will all work before you need it in a crisis. I think this is another in the ongoing series of examples of how we all worry about the wrong things. We debate endlessly offshore storm techniques, man overboard retrieval equipment, and how to fend off pirates, but the much more likely scenario is that we will simply fall in the water at some point and drown, most likely in the harbor.
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Old 16-03-2013, 08:18   #83
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Re: Tried climbing in your dinghy from the water?

Quote:
Originally Posted by svmariane View Post
Aw, heck.... And I worked so HARD over the years to develop this beer-belly!
It's a poor man that can't afford a tool for....

All humor and "Arr Arr" comments put aside (and forums really should provide some fun--I liked being called part of the arr arr contingent, a good barb--put aside, swimming and lifesaving skills are just as important as any other part of seamanship, IMHO.

I have been in the water in January (wet suit) helping folks out of a swamped boat that were panicked (it was too rough to get along side).

I watched my daughter literally save a drowning teenager much larger than herself be cause she alone realized he was simply going down; though he had gone some distance out, she dove in and made for him like an arrow. Weak swimming skill would have left a fatality.

I watched my father (75 at the time) intentionally slide off a beach cat to prevent pitch pole. I suspect even at 88 he can still tread water for 30 minutes, not because of fitness but because of very good skills. I swear he can swim just using his eyes.

I've picked kids out of the water after they flipped a canoe. Nope, not all wearing PFDs.

---

Just sayin, make all the fun you want, until it matters.

As for re-boarding, each person needs to know their limits and what aids they need. I have long ladders for my parents and wife and I respect that. However, for those that are fit, the seal method really is physically easy on any inflatable. It is worth practicing as it will work when you are on someone else's dingy (no ladder).
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Old 17-03-2013, 11:07   #84
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Re: Tried climbing in your dinghy from the water?

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
was disappointed (but not entirely surprised) to find that the answer was: none.


So I started off by standing on a box at a height which meant I didn't have to start with straight arms.

Initially I could barely manage five even like this, but I would do this a few times a day, then the next day I could manage six, etc etc, until I could manage twenty.

I get the feeling it was stomach muscles, rather than arm strength, which was letting me down the most, .
I've been studying this phenomenon for some time.

I'm in unusually good condition, though I'm not a body builder, and had the same experience you did. It looks easy when you see someone else do it, and you just assume that you can do at least 2 or 3, but the reality is that most people can do ZERO pullups unless they have practiced it.

You're spot on that CORE muscles are the main source of the body strength to pull up. Hands are typically strong enough to hold on, but when you try to pull up, your core muscles are heavily taxed.

In all forms of working out, you have major and minor muscles that affect your ability to complete a particular exercise. When you start a NEW exercise, it is the minor muscles that are failing you - not the ones that will lift the weight, but the ones that help you control the exercise. You have to first build those muscles before you can begin to truly exercise the major muscles. That's why it takes a long time before you begin to make gains in the amount of weight you can lift, or in the size/strength of your major muscle.

The legs are very heavy. If you can find a way to reduce the weight of the legs in a pull up, you can begin to practice and build your strength. A common method is to put one or both feet on a chair. You don't stand on the chair, just allow your leg(s) to rest there while you work on your pullup form.
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Old 17-03-2013, 11:18   #85
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Re: Tried climbing in your dinghy from the water?

Inflatable boat tender - getting back in made easy! - YouTube

As you can see, it all depends on what dinghy you choose. Go with a 21st century catamaran type that will plane with 3 hp and you have a bow that under your weight of getting in, lowers to water level. No need for ladders or upper body strength.
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Old 17-03-2013, 11:46   #86
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Re: Tried climbing in your dinghy from the water?

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Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
That is why they make dingy ladders.

Defender.com Search Results: dinghy ladder

I suggest you make a rope loop ladder. All you need is 2 steps max and the rope loops take no space. My cav plates work fine - 15 HP merc.
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Old 17-03-2013, 14:20   #87
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Re: Tried climbing in your dinghy from the water?

I just ordered on of these Davis Swim Stirrup Reboarding Ladder, Boat U.S. Rated Best for a rib at $22

The perfect length (about 20 inches below the waterline) for all the testers.

Why make my own, when I can buy the best for $22
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Old 17-03-2013, 14:52   #88
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Re: Tried climbing in your dinghy from the water?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Those requirements sound familiar, I might be able to doggy paddle 50 metres if chased by a shark (a very slow one!) - but I would not bet money on it. Treading water for 15 minutes?, I have more chance of walking on it ......with the guaranteed same results for even trying (glug!).

Definately was PADI (both the basic and the Advanced) - seperate Dive Centres in Australia back in 1996 Airlie Beach and then Cairns.......how did I manage to pass? easy . I just mentioned before paying that I could not swim and had zero chance of meeting the requirements - but was very comfortable in the sea (boats since a kid )......didn't cost me any extra, but I figured in a competitive industry a willing punter is a punter - and I was right ,.........and whilst I will not claim I ever became a good diver I was by no means the worst I have ever encountered. actually far from it on the Australian east coast when tourist diving amongst the newly qualified......to be fair to the PADI instructors, I was clearly comfortable in the water (and I think those requirements as much about demonstrating that as the actual things themselves - 50 metres is not very far!)......My take was that with a tank of air and an inflatable BCD, pretty hard to drown simply from not being able to swim! (plenty of other opportunities though!).





getting tired / exhausted is an important consideration - and no matter how fit "you" start off everyone gets to the same point of being completely and utterly knackered and incapable of helping themselves - the only difference is how long that takes!

For those who have not tried to board an inflatable dink it is an eye opener on the effort / technique required, especially when you realise that would be doing pretty much the same if boarding a liferaft from the water. Despite those having ladders, as only fabric / rope they can never be that great - if nothing else should convince "you" to desperately try and get into the liferaft direct!

Also bear in mind that if wearing a bouyancy aid (per the pic a few posts back) that you will have changed from being a slippery seal to a whale!.......the bouyancy aid (bigger gut that does not flex!) can make it impossible to board on own over the tubes.....give it a go!
The almighty dollar always works better than standards with PADI. The concern for me David is that many non swimmers, not as confident as you in the water can potentially be a danger to themselves. Clearly to progress
you have demonstrated some competency and confidence in the water.

Perhaps I am old fashioned and believe an ability to swim should be mandatory. I have as an instructor knocked back non swimmers who have gone away and become good swimmers and excellent safe divers.

Non swimmers certainly take up boating and diving but I have to agree with Thinwater.

Quote:
All humor and "Arr Arr" comments put aside (and forums really should provide some fun--I liked being called part of the arr arr contingent, a good barb--put aside, swimming and lifesaving skills are just as important as any other part of seamanship, IMHO.
Cheers
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Old 17-03-2013, 15:40   #89
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Re: Tried climbing in your dinghy from the water?

Take a mooring line, tie two quick loops and fix it over the side of your dinghy. Put your foot in a loop and climb in. Remove the loops and put the line back in the locker.

I used this rig and its clones to climb and prune trees (with a chain saw) for years.
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Old 17-03-2013, 15:55   #90
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Re: Tried climbing in your dinghy from the water?

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Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
Inflatable boat tender - getting back in made easy! - YouTube

As you can see, it all depends on what dinghy you choose. Go with a 21st century catamaran type that will plane with 3 hp and you have a bow that under your weight of getting in, lowers to water level. No need for ladders or upper body strength.
That looks like a nice dink! However, that easy climb was without the outboard, with its weight might not be as easy to tilt it like that.

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