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Old 05-11-2014, 14:32   #61
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Re: The bow of cats

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So after reading this thread I've come to the conclusion that the new wave piercing bows are totally useless. They give a longer waterline but have no reserve buoyancy. Why wouldn't the designer just continue the deck to the point of it being plumb over the waterline and gain the buoyancy? New fad because it looks cool?
Wave piercing bows on big racing cats and tri's work in reducing pitching response to waves.

IMO on a lot of cruising boats they really are just a styling exercise, akin to putting spoilers and wings on road going sedans.
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Old 05-11-2014, 15:07   #62
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Re: The bow of cats

Yes, wave piercing bows are to reduce pitching. The buoyancy is carried to the end of the boat and weight is removed from this end. Just the opposite approach to an overhanging bow, which increases pitching and hobby horsing.

However, the point of wave piercing is to NOT have extra reserve buoyancy. At racing speeds, it is much faster to pierce the wave than to pitch over it, and then to have less deck area to clear. They are very useful for this. I don't think they are really anything other than styling for a cruising boat.

The Manta 46 concept is an interesting mix of having a wave piercing bow to a certain point, after which reserve buoyancy is available.

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Old 05-11-2014, 16:35   #63
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To me, absolutely nothing looks right about the Manta 46.
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Old 05-11-2014, 16:59   #64
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Re: The bow of cats

a. Cats have very little to do with monos in this regard. They are skinnier and the rules are different. Obvious.
b. Cats are about functions, not mono hull styling. Obvious.

I don't believe anyone has mentioned what that big flare does if the bow burries at speed (boat stops, pitchpole is possible). Hobies were famous for both flare and pitchpoling. While some flare can provide work space and a drier ride, flare and overhang MUST be limited on any high speed multi.

You won't find flare on high performance one designs (mono or multi); there isn't a rule to consider and seaworthiness is generally improving... at least for high speed sailing, which all cats should aspire to.

Yes, Warram got a way with it, but it was actually minimized in the Pahi line for this reason. Also most of his boats are nothing like cruising cats (little cabin) and so close comparison is false comparison.

But folks cling to traditions. I think it is genetic.
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Old 07-11-2014, 02:17   #65
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Re: The bow of cats

A lot of the newer monos have plumb bows..
Particularly some of the Bene First series..
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Old 08-11-2014, 03:27   #66
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Re: The bow of cats

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a.

. Hobies were famous for both flare and pitchpoling. While some flare can provide work space and a drier ride, flare and overhang MUST be limited on any high speed multi.

You won't find flare on high performance one designs (mono or multi); there isn't a rule to consider and seaworthiness is generally improving...

.
I think you may find you are mistaken. Not a lot of flare in a hobie 14/16 hull.
Lots of rocker and not a lot of buoyancy when combined with bucket loads of sail
Area certainly lead to a pitch poling reputation.

In a cat bow the flare is still a valid design choice . Check out the classic catana crowther tulip bow. Andrew star sky's' Fantasia is doing well on the Oz race circuit with this feature. Modern cruising cat design seems to be Imatateing what we see on the race course even if it's a total WAFTAM when loaded with the
Cruising necessities.
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Old 08-11-2014, 03:49   #67
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Re: The bow of cats

That would be "Stransky" and "WOFTAM"
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Old 08-11-2014, 13:20   #68
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Re: The bow of cats

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I think you may find you are mistaken. Not a lot of flare in a hobie 14/16 hull.
Lots of rocker and not a lot of buoyancy when combined with bucket loads of sail
Area certainly lead to a pitch poling reputation.

In a cat bow the flare is still a valid design choice . Check out the classic catana crowther tulip bow. Andrew star sky's' Fantasia is doing well on the Oz race circuit with this feature. Modern cruising cat design seems to be Imatateing what we see on the race course even if it's a total WAFTAM when loaded with the
Cruising necessities.
I've been aboard Fantasia a few times, from what I remember, the bows are pretty close to vertical, and there's not much flare in them.
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Old 08-11-2014, 15:09   #69
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Re: The bow of cats

Saomewhere on uTube I saw a vid about an outremer 50 where they changed the proflie of the bow by adding a shart point.

The classic smoking and spray on teh Outermer bow was totally stopped... I have windered about doing the same with a foam core "addition"?
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Old 09-11-2014, 02:14   #70
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Re: The bow of cats

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I've been aboard Fantasia a few times, from what I remember, the bows are pretty close to vertical, and there's not much flare in them.
Yes, a vertical bow doesn't exclude flare, hence the classic crowther tulip shape, sharp at the waterline not so at deck level.
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Old 09-11-2014, 03:25   #71
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Re: The bow of cats

For the record here are the bows of Fantasia. I'm with 44C on this one.

Good boat Fantasia, proves the adage that waterline length is king.
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Old 09-11-2014, 05:01   #72
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Re: The bow of cats

we sail our cat hard..and often bury a bow. The biggest design flaw for most cruising cats in the tramp. Since we went to dynema netting our bow pops right up now with minimal loss of speed and no more bridge deck stalling on waves waiting for water to clear tramp. Do not give me a cat with overhang or flared hulls forward of center. It all spells slow when the water gets rough. But I understand most cat buyers today are not looking for a real sailing vessels they are looking for condos.

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