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Old 12-04-2011, 05:11   #61
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Re: Seawind 1160

I own an 1160 (Xtsea) and intend on moving onto her in just over 1000 days. Intend on seeing the world eventually.

Loved the look of it, absolutely gob-smacked by the trifold doors raising up. Enough room to comfortably live in. Features and little touches that the engineer in me appreciates.

I think I read somewhere, "buy the smallest boat that will do the job". Not that I intend to do much berting, but the jump in price for 12m berths is a factor.

Boat is VERY easy to sail well. We won the 2010 Seawind Whitsunday Rally in XTsea against a fleet of 18 other 1160's/1000's (two first place finishes in the six races... plus we were good at trivia and sand sculpting) despite relative inexperience.

In my own biased opinion, it's a great boat and priced well. I was lucky enough to pick up mine second hand with only limited miles on the clock and with a good equipment list. She is currently in a charter fleet but in January 2014 she is ours again!

www.xtsea.com.au
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Old 12-04-2011, 15:38   #62
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Re: Seawind 1160

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
There is always an option if you have the money.
One attraction of outboards is the lower price. If you have to pay more for them they wouldn't make as much sense.

Everything has pro's and con's - outboards are cheaper, lighter, easier to fit, easier to service, easier to replace when the time comes. In commercial use the HT outboards on houseboats are acheiving good lifespans - well over 6000 hours is common.

All other things being equal, an outboard equipped boat will sail better than a diesel boat. Less weight and less drag. So the difference in fuel consumption could be less than you'd expect - the diesel will use less when it's running, but will probably be run more often.

Downsides are - less power generation, and no hot water facility. Also IMO outboards are a bit noisier. In rough conditions an outboard will probably be more prone to prop ventilation, depending on the installation.
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Old 12-04-2011, 15:49   #63
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Re: Seawind 1160

My only experience in a cat was a 1000m coastal trip up the east coast of Australia in a Seawind 1000. A very impressive vessel but I could not get used to the amount of wave slamming one has to endure in 25 - 30 knots of wind and choppy seas. Is this normal for cats or just a Seawind 1000 feature? I like cats but after that trip I wouldn't dream of buying one before I took it offshore in some decent winds to see if they all do that.

Greg
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Old 12-04-2011, 17:19   #64
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Re: Seawind 1160

This has been discussed many times. Higher bridgedeck clearance reduces the amount of wave slam.
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Old 12-04-2011, 17:49   #65
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Re: Seawind 1160

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
One attraction of outboards is the lower price. If you have to pay more for them they wouldn't make as much sense.

Everything has pro's and con's - outboards are cheaper, lighter, easier to fit, easier to service, easier to replace when the time comes. In commercial use the HT outboards on houseboats are acheiving good lifespans - well over 6000 hours is common.

All other things being equal, an outboard equipped boat will sail better than a diesel boat. Less weight and less drag. So the difference in fuel consumption could be less than you'd expect - the diesel will use less when it's running, but will probably be run more often.

Downsides are - less power generation, and no hot water facility. Also IMO outboards are a bit noisier. In rough conditions an outboard will probably be more prone to prop ventilation, depending on the installation.
I've got a friend with a Mainecat 30 which originally had two HT 8 hp Yamahas, now it has 9.9s. I've probably spent about 2.5 months on his boat since 2003. I never found the noise of the outboards to be a problem. I actually find them less bothersome than my diesels as there is no noise inside the cabins. They're also higher pitched and some hearing loss in the higher frequencies on my part probably helps. He got less than 2000 hours out of his 8 hps. I suspect as with most engines if you run them often and hard they last longer than those used intermitantly. 9 months out of the year he used them only to get in and out of the slip and three months a year he used them to cruise but only when he couldn't sail. His big problems were with the power tilt mechanism and carb problems probably caused by poor fuel as he did not use even a quarter of a tank for 9 months of the year. My diesel fuel does not go bad if I don't use it much.

It is nice to be able to raise the engines out of the water when they're not being used, but he had huge problems with pump motors and relays on the tilt mechanisms over the years. My guess is that house boat charters run their engines almost every day for long hours since they don't have a sail option. These 6000 hour numbers are probably in fresh water as well. I disagree about easier to service. I can get to just about anything on my diesels with no problems. To do just about anything to the outboards on the Mainecat the engines had to be pulled out of their holes which involved an A frame pullies and winches. Much more trouble than my diesels. Don't get me wrong I've had some expensive problems with my Yanmar Saildrives as you can read in other threads, but I've found the outboards to be no easier to work on and in the case of the engine not including the lower unit much worse than my diesels, though probably less expensive. Fuel consumption for his 30 footer @ 5kn is about equal to my 44 footer @ 6kn.

The pods for the outboards are pretty close to the water and tend to slap much more than the bridgedeck as the waves hit the near vertical surface of the pods much more often than they slap the bottom of the bridge deck.

When it comes to price, the initial purchase price is clearly much lower for the outboard, but if you have to change them 4 times as often it may be closer to break even than one would imagine when full life cycle costs are considered.

Some of the problems with the outboard installation on a Mainecat may not apply to the Seawind, but I doubt that the mechanical issues will be much different, at least in saltwater.

My 2 cents change welcome.
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Old 13-04-2011, 00:50   #66
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Re: Seawind 1160

I'd suggest that just like inboard diesels, the installation has a major part to play in ease or difficulty of servicing. I can work on mine easily, there's no way I'd need to remove them to service them. And if I did need to remove one, I can lift it out by hand.

Certainly servicing the leg is MUCH easier. From the dinghy I've removed both gearcases and changed the oil in them while the boat was in the water. Propellers stay clean too, no need to antifoul.
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Old 14-04-2011, 03:33   #67
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Re: Seawind 1160

Hi all - As a 1000 owner for over 4 years, Iíll give my 2 cents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by artemidorus View Post
These comments are a little surprising to a Sydney SW1000 skipper of 9 years. Our standard 1000 ventilates her XL-shaft Yamaha 9.9 propellors every few seconds going to windward in >20 kts. She'll be reduced to about 2-3kts headway in 35-40 kts on the nose, and the ventilation becomes more-or-less constant. As soon as the wind reaches 40 - 45 kts on the nose, despite fully-open throttles, she'll start to lose steerage way.

I will agree with artemidorus on this and I donít believe itís solved with extensions, BUT mine only has a problem with the prt engine Ė stb side never ventilates. This was intriguing at first until we worked out that the stb bracket is 3 inches longer than prt side meaning that the stb engine is 3 inches lower in the water than the prt side Ė factory quality control at its best!!

Personally I hate the outboards. They are fine for pottering around on the bay, but for an extended cruise they are painful, low range, much noisier than modern diesel and bugger all charging. The 1000 with its solar is fine as long as its sunny Ė everyday (or its back sitting unused in the marina during the week), head off shore for 3-4 weeks (we go every year) and strike an extended period of cloud and itís a battle (as delivered), admittedly since changing the lighting (especially the anchor light) to LED it is much easier Ė and I really should fit a wind gen. They have also failed twice now, once was the CDI box on one side then the stator on the other side Ė both ignition components that are absent on a dieselÖ The first 4 1000s did have diesels then the charter industry asked for a cheaper solution (purchase and servicing Ė can get to the gear case while the boat is still in the water)- its about the $ and it meets the market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleebana View Post
My only experience in a cat was a 1000m coastal trip up the east coast of Australia in a Seawind 1000. A very impressive vessel but I could not get used to the amount of wave slamming one has to endure in 25 - 30 knots of wind and choppy seas. Is this normal for cats or just a Seawind 1000 feature? I like cats but after that trip I wouldn't dream of buying one before I took it offshore in some decent winds to see if they all do that.
I canít say Iíve experienced much tunnel slamming, the 1000 clearance is pretty good given its length and beam Ė however what you describe is the outboard pod slamming and that is a 1000 feature.

End of the day the 1000 is a brilliant bay platform Ė for extended trips it lacks some features Ė but many of us are showing that itís more than usable. Itís a big step up to an 1160 both in $ and boat. I canít see the value in the increase in $ to the 1250 Ė itís very nice but at 100k more, I just canít see it Ė the fwd cabins even come from the same mould as the 1160.

The 1160 would not gain as much advantage as the 1000 did from transom extensions. The 1000 sits about 4-5 inches below the water at the transom. The 1160 are level with the water surface. If the mid-size boat they were working on emerges (1120 I think it was to be called, combination of the 1000xl and 1160), then it would make sense to stretch it a tadÖ They nearly had me sold on the 1120 concept until they mentioned the outboard feature
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Old 14-04-2011, 06:03   #68
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Re: Seawind 1160

As a we had a Seawind 1000 and put 4' stern extensions on her I guarantee the extensions made a huge difference in ventilation, motion and performance. She was a different boat with the extensions.
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Old 14-04-2011, 16:56   #69
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Re: Seawind 1160

Harlie and I have agreed to disagree on a few issues in the past - this is one of them. I get remarkably different fuel usage figures to him, funnily enough mine are very similar to Katie Kat Joe's Boat (a similar boat to harlie's) I also get remarkably different ventilation experience. I have no doubt the stern extensions help, they have the effect of "moving" the motors closer to the centre of pitch.

All things being equal, I would like diesels - but I would have to have a much bigger boat. As for outboards suitability for off shore, well plenty of people have taken outboard powered multis very long distances. Magic Carpet is a smaller cat than mine and went RTW with one outboard

PS - Harlie - before you fit a wind gen talk to Tim on Catherine Mary - he has some tips for fitting, and you might even be able to buy his? A chat with him made me reconsider my thoughts on a wind gen
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Old 20-04-2011, 11:39   #70
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Re: Seawind 1160

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
I've got a friend with a Mainecat 30 which originally had two HT 8 hp Yamahas, now it has 9.9s. I've probably spent about 2.5 months on his boat since 2003. I never found the noise of the outboards to be a problem. I actually find them less bothersome than my diesels as there is no noise inside the cabins. They're also higher pitched and some hearing loss in the higher frequencies on my part probably helps. He got less than 2000 hours out of his 8 hps. I suspect as with most engines if you run them often and hard they last longer than those used intermitantly. 9 months out of the year he used them only to get in and out of the slip and three months a year he used them to cruise but only when he couldn't sail. His big problems were with the power tilt mechanism and carb problems probably caused by poor fuel as he did not use even a quarter of a tank for 9 months of the year. My diesel fuel does not go bad if I don't use it much.

It is nice to be able to raise the engines out of the water when they're not being used, but he had huge problems with pump motors and relays on the tilt mechanisms over the years. My guess is that house boat charters run their engines almost every day for long hours since they don't have a sail option. These 6000 hour numbers are probably in fresh water as well. I disagree about easier to service. I can get to just about anything on my diesels with no problems. To do just about anything to the outboards on the Mainecat the engines had to be pulled out of their holes which involved an A frame pullies and winches. Much more trouble than my diesels. Don't get me wrong I've had some expensive problems with my Yanmar Saildrives as you can read in other threads, but I've found the outboards to be no easier to work on and in the case of the engine not including the lower unit much worse than my diesels, though probably less expensive. Fuel consumption for his 30 footer @ 5kn is about equal to my 44 footer @ 6kn.

The pods for the outboards are pretty close to the water and tend to slap much more than the bridgedeck as the waves hit the near vertical surface of the pods much more often than they slap the bottom of the bridge deck.

When it comes to price, the initial purchase price is clearly much lower for the outboard, but if you have to change them 4 times as often it may be closer to break even than one would imagine when full life cycle costs are considered.

Some of the problems with the outboard installation on a Mainecat may not apply to the Seawind, but I doubt that the mechanical issues will be much different, at least in saltwater.

My 2 cents change welcome.
Wow, this topic is gettin a whole lotta great advice and comments. I don't have my Cat yet, (Seawind 1250 or maybe Lagoon 560) but when I do I'll be ready (I hope).
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Old 22-04-2011, 14:15   #71
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Re: Seawind 1160

The seawind is Rather expensive in America, compared to French cats.
Once you have a cat you will enjoy motoring much more than a stinky monohull, epecially if you have current model with the motors outside of the accomodation spaces. Tacking through 90 degrees is plenty, other wise you just motor straight into it. Daggerboards Do add pointing ability IF USED to Best Effect which they rarely are. mostly they are noisy, fiddly, one more thing to break
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Old 22-04-2011, 19:06   #72
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Re: Seawind 1160

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The seawind is Rather expensive in America, compared to French cats.
Once you have a cat you will enjoy motoring much more than a stinky monohull, epecially if you have current model with the motors outside of the accomodation spaces. Tacking through 90 degrees is plenty, other wise you just motor straight into it. Daggerboards Do add pointing ability IF USED to Best Effect which they rarely are. mostly they are noisy, fiddly, one more thing to break
Great info, thanks for the post..
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Old 23-04-2011, 15:10   #73
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Re: Seawind 1160

Funny, but now I have a cat I enjoy motoring much less than my old mono. Not that motoring is less enjoyable, but I sail MUCH more. And that's more enjoyable.

I do have to "fiddle" with a daggerboard, it consumes all of maybe 30-60 seconds in a day's sailing. Probably saves me hours of motoring though.
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Old 27-04-2011, 04:48   #74
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Re: Seawind 1160

Are there any Seawinds here in the Chesapeake near Annapolis. I would ike to have a look at one, I don't remember seeing them at the boat show. let's get together for a raftup, or any other cats nearby!

Tis the Season
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Old 29-04-2011, 04:33   #75
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Re: Seawind 1160

We bought a secondhand Seawind 1000 about 6 months ago which has Honda 15s. We are new to sailing but found on our maiden voyage from Sydney to Coffin Bay found them to be excellent.

Daryl & Kerren
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