S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

In the end... Who cares? To each their own. But I really can't understand why just a few catamaran owners seem so bothered about even discussing the matter?

And yet here you are discussing it, (and starting the most idiotic thread ever seen on this or probably any other forum), and here we have the ultimate monohull advocate (who constantly claims to be unbiased) posting a video in a multihull forum...

[Factor]

Hmm - polux is gone quiet.

One swallow does not make a summer, one video does not amount to proof. Yesterday I sailed a Seawind 1250 in a social race, we outpointed a Farr40 and went quicker. Do I now believe that all multis outpoint all monos - well NO. I don't even believe we could outpoint all Farr 40s.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Factor

Hmm - polux is gone quiet.

One swallow does not make a summer, one video does not amount to proof. Yesterday I sailed a Seawind 1250 in a social race, we outpointed a Farr40 and went quicker. Do I now believe that all multis outpoint all monos - well NO. I don't even believe we could outpoint all Farr 40s.

Actually Factor, he presented you with quite a response and then you went off topic and he possibly ignorred your off topic question after you ignorred his.

And i dont know anything of this stuff. I have what i can afford and thats it

[Factor]

He presented no response at all, i asked a question, so far he has avoided answering it.

[Wakey]

Originally Posted by Factor

He presented no response at all, i asked a question, so far he has avoided answering it.

I'm a fan of cats and yet I think it's immaterial. Just let it go, please? :-)

Sent from my SM-G900V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Polux

Talking about being biased: A sailboat with an upwind SA/D of 42 is not really fast!!!!

The Lagoon 470 has a SA/D of 27 and the Amel super Maramu 17

SA/D range of values:
16 to 18 Heavy offshore cruisers
18 to 22 Medium cruisers
22 to 26 Inshore cruisers, racing boats
26 to 30+ Extreme racing boats

The first time they sailed the Barramundi 470 they reached 18k with 15k wind.
Catamaran barramundi 470 FAST a 18 noeuds MAMBO - CNN iReport

Of course that was not upwind

What the video proved was that a Barramundi 470, a performance catamaran, upwind, in light conditions is slightly faster than a slow heavy monohull like the Amel Super Maramu and that with medium conditions the Amel is faster upwind.

Do you recall him talking about the weight of his cat in the video? No? Doesn't fit your narrative?

Any decent dagger board cat will go faster than he is.

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[Red Herring]

Originally Posted by Polux

You guys sometimes surprise me. It is a LeRouge design and LeRouge does not design condo cats. The Barramundi 470 weights only 14 100lbs and yes it does not have daggerboards but considerably deep keels for a cat with 7' 6".

Um... as far as I know Baramundi 470 has an average keel, NOT 71/2 feet. She is fast thou.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

And yet here you are discussing it, (and starting the most idiotic thread ever seen on this or probably any other forum), and here we have the ultimate monohull advocate (who constantly claims to be unbiased) posting a video in a multihull forum...

I enjoyed watching the Delos videos, in particular the one posted by Mr. Polux.

And like I wrote previously: "In the end... Who cares? To each their own. But I really can't understand why just a few catamaran owners seem so bothered about even discussing the matter?"

[Factor]

Of course what is more amazing is that some mono owners seem to believe they should have an opinions on stuff they don't really know about

[Rustic Charm]

Wow, this mono / cat thingy is a mine field isn't it.

[Factor]

Nope - but Polux appears to have no experience but wants to argue the toss with those that do. I don' get that. I never ever ver look at the mono thread, I have nothjing to offer - I rarely sail on monos for the last 25 years, so my knowledge is dated and limited, so not a lot of point me postulating.

[Factor]

Just another data point on Windward performance.

The Surf to City Race is a traditional January race from Southport to Shorncliffe, via the inshore route for smaller boats, and offshore for boats that can meet the RRS applicable category. Normally a reahing running race (direction is roughly north, wind usually south east) This year a windward race the whole way, northerly dying breeze whilst heading roughly north.

See attached rough guide map. Obviously the course lines are indicative only.

So the fastest Offshore mono was a Ker 50 - (built by McConaghy Yachts - see link here - Kerumba Video and specs etc) fairly much a weapon race with great cruising facility as well ( a a stunning interior - complete with carbon fibre dunny) took 15 hrs 34 mins and the Second was a Farr 40 - took 18:27 , the rest of the monos took over 20 hours.

Fastest off shore multi was Mojo (Cruiser racer Schionning , accent on performance) which took 14:14 next took 18:44 (Renaissance another schionning but different older model and certainly more cruisy than Mojo.

For the record Mojo cost a fair bit less than Kerumba - quite a lot less in fact. Mojo has raced/cruised all obver south east asia.

The pattern is repeated in the inshore Race but more pronounced with the first seven multis beating all the monos. Fastest multi a little over 6 hours and fastest mono a bit over 9.

So - a race where everyone is trying, rather than a random video of two boats wandering aimlessly together. Perhaps more valid.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Red Herring

Um... as far as I know Baramundi 470 has an average keel, NOT 71/2 feet. She is fast thou.

You are right. I saw those specifications somewhere but they obviously belonged to the VIK 144 that has dagerboards, not to the Barramundi..

The Barramundi 470 has keels with 3'7".
Here an interesting article about keels and daggerboards by Eric Lerouge, the designer of that cat:
Cat Twin Keel

Also a very nice post about a owner stating why he chose the Barramundi 470:
barramundi 470 fast 2011 - barramundi 470 fast infusion epoxy

Also to the ones that don't know me that well let me point out that between a Barramundi 470 and an Amel Super Maramu 2000, as a voyage boat, I would chose easily the Barramundi.

That obviously means not that the Amel is a worse voyage boat than the Barramundy simply that it fits better my personal tastes. I enjoy sailing and I enjoy fast boats and when we voyage we sail mostly on trade winds where the lesser performance of the Barramundi versus the Amel would not have any real meaning in what concerns performance, given the much better performance of the Barramundi on all other points of sail.

That obviously means not that I would have preferred the Barramundi over all monohulls in what regards a voyage boat, but certainly over an Amel, that is a great voyage boat for many, that have different tastes in what regards sailing.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Wow, this mono / cat thingy is a mine field isn't it.

Only for a dozen or so cat owners who feel the need to prove some point, otherwise nobody else really cares. The personal friends we know on cats or mono hulls all seem quite pleased with their choices and couldn't care less about what others think of their boat.

[Polux]

Another interesting point on that interview regards motion sickness and how it affects different sailors. On the 2th video the owner of the cat says that he would consider as ideal boat a trimaran, joking he talks about a 90fter, but more seriously he talks as the reason for that choice a more kindly sea motion, more the kind of the one of a monohull.

From what he says, and because he talks of seasikness, we can understand that he gets seasick and he is more affected by the jerkier and faster movements of a cat than by the bigger and slower movements of a monohull and that's why he says he would prefer a trimaran that he claims is, in what regards that, more similar to a monohull.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWbvNzrh5Vw

I have some doubts about that and probably it will depend greatly on the trimaran design. Probably true in what regards the fast ones that are designed to sail with one ama out of the water.

Regarding to be affected more for a type of movement or another (deeper motion but slower, short motion but faster one) I have read about many people that are more affected by one or another. Known also people that is more touched by one or other.

Regarding that my personal experience is, like in what regards cat sailing almost nonexistent, since I do not get seasick but knowledge regarding that is far from limited to personal experience. I have sailed with many people that get seasick and I have read even more regarding people that get seasick.

Myy wife can get seasick but after some days on the boat the seasickness regarding the slow but big movement induced by big waves (mostly on Atlantic) goes way and she does not get seasick anymore but regarding going upwind fast on nasty conditions on the med (fast, small but jerkier movement) she never really gets used to it and the best she can get is a mild discomfort, not really deep seasickness.

Sometimes I have just to reduce speed for her to feel better. Normally less 1k upwind will do the trick on those conditions even if I hate to do that.

Another interesting interview from the guys of the Amel (Delos) to the guy with the Barramundi 470, the one that they beat upwind. That Barramundi has a very nice interior and is really a very nice cat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJCGiVXRtbc

Pity this is not the main trend of cruising cats, but cats like the Lagoon or the Fountain Pajot. If it was it would probably be possible to get one of these babies not by a fortune, even if always for a lot more than a similarly sized monohull. Beautiful boat too, a thing most cats are not to my eyes.