Question about Kit Cats (Fusion, Schionning, Spirite)

[SaltyMonkey]

What about Spirited?

[spiritcat]

Having built a Spirited 380, you can get one on the water for less than $300k if you do all the work yourself.

Peter

[nimblemotors]

If you just want the standard 40ft condomaran and have $300k, there are plenty of options buying used, and if you are even considering building then refurbishing an older one would be no problem. The basic structures don't really wear out if made well. Then you can get the 'new' latest top dollar stuff, like sails, rigging, engines, electronics, washing machine, watermaker, autopilot, A/C, freezer, etc and time to install it all, which is that other $200k in cost.
(Note: anything 'new' is 'old' the next day after it is installed)

You pay a hefty premium for speeding up the build time when buying a kit.
Consider those Fusions are $500k, if kit is $100k, fitout $200k, there is $100k in savings which is your labor.

I believe my cat will be built for way under $100k, but it for sure is not going to be a condomaran. Look at how these things are built and you can understand why they are so expensive.
The solution the industry takes is find cheaper labor rather than find more efficient designs.

[CortoMaltese]

Condomaran? Well no, but yes it's a liveaboard for me and my family so indeed won't be a performance oriented cat. I guess the ideal would be to find the equilibrium between the 2 sides.......not easy.
Anyway, Serenity Shipyard answered to my email: 500K (+kit) for a sailaway fusion!!! I am new to all this but i see it like a no way.....

I'd love to build the boat myself, i am even quite handy with resins.....but i think i would not feel confortable enought to sail with the cat i build: no experience with that and a lot of money involved to try and play around with it. I would feel more confortable to get the hulls done and then fit the interiors myself........but how long that would take??? BTW another surprise with the shipyard: 12 to 18 months to build the cat (1 year fusion 18 months a shionning)....thought it would take less.
As suggested i think that a nice one would be to get an unfinished cat........anywere you can suggest where to look for it? Never saw any ads on yachtworld.
Cheers

[nimblemotors]

I haven't seen many boats that can be bought new as shells. Boatsmith can make the 47ft Wharram shell for you.

One can get an older boat and rip out the old stuff and put in new stuff, so you are really just buying the 'shell' of the old boat.
It is always a challenge going this route to wait until the right one comes along,
and it will never be ideal, whereas building one you have a lot of design choices and just pick one anytime.

[ausaviator]

I'd love to build the boat myself, i am even quite handy with resins.....but i think i would not feel confortable enought to sail with the cat i build: no experience with that and a lot of money involved to try and play around with it. I would feel more confortable to get the hulls done and then fit the interiors myself........but how long that would take??? BTW another surprise with the shipyard: 12 to 18 months to build the cat (1 year fusion 18 months a shionning)....thought it would take less.

Those timeframes sound like they only have a couple of guys working. They could surely do a lot better than that.

[CortoMaltese]

Originally Posted by ausaviator

Those timeframes sound like they only have a couple of guys working. They could surely do a lot better than that.

I was surprised too by their reply: price is very high and takes way more than what i thought

[category4jay]

I wish you the very best of luck in your search for a large cat for a great price that fits your budget. Thats a tall order but not impossible. I may be wrong but in reality the only two real advantages there are to a kit build are 1) you truly do end up with a "custom" boat as everything on the boat (layout, equipment, electronics, etc.) is something you personally selected. And 2) you can get a lot of boat for your buck IF AND ONLY IF you build yourself. You may be able to shave some labor costs by hiring a yard in Thailand or somewhere where labor is cheap but you are still hiring that labor. A disadvantage is time. It will take a LOT of time to complete the process. No matter what. If it was me, given your budget, I would buy a nice ready to sail Cat and be done with the process. Load up the family and set sail. This advice assumes you buy a seaworthy cat and know how to sail her safely. Keep us informed on what you end up doing. Cheers!

[CortoMaltese]

Originally Posted by category4jay

I wish you the very best of luck in your search for a large cat for a great price that fits your budget. Thats a tall order but not impossible. I may be wrong but in reality the only two real advantages there are to a kit build are 1) you truly do end up with a "custom" boat as everything on the boat (layout, equipment, electronics, etc.) is something you personally selected. And 2) you can get a lot of boat for your buck IF AND ONLY IF you build yourself. You may be able to shave some labor costs by hiring a yard in Thailand or somewhere where labor is cheap but you are still hiring that labor. A disadvantage is time. It will take a LOT of time to complete the process. No matter what. If it was me, given your budget, I would buy a nice ready to sail Cat and be done with the process. Load up the family and set sail. This advice assumes you buy a seaworthy cat and know how to sail her safely. Keep us informed on what you end up doing. Cheers!

Thanx mate. To be honest i admit, after reading all the posts, that i might be dreaming a bit. Sure if i was 100% sure about my skills or that i can afford it i would go that way because there are some fantastic designs, but at the end yes, a custom involves much more from many points of view and lots of money. Maybe it's comparable with suits: who can goes to a tailor, who can't goes to a store. Guess i am more a pret-a-porter guy.....
Cheers!

[andreas.mehlin]

also to consider when building by yourself is re-sale value.
Amature built boats usually doesnt compete on the same market value as a professional built one.

[CortoMaltese]

Originally Posted by andreas.mehlin

also to consider when building by yourself is re-sale value.
Amature built boats usually doesnt compete on the same market value as a professional built one.

For sure this is a very important point........thinking about it, myself looking for a boat i would feel more confident getting the boat builded by a pro. Of course no offense ment to the builders in the forum that they might have done even a better job than pros.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by category4jay

I wish you the very best of luck in your search for a large cat for a great price that fits your budget. Thats a tall order but not impossible. I may be wrong but in reality the only two real advantages there are to a kit build are 1) you truly do end up with a "custom" boat as everything on the boat (layout, equipment, electronics, etc.) is something you personally selected. And 2) you can get a lot of boat for your buck IF AND ONLY IF you build yourself.......

There's a couple more, and to me very important advantages.

You end up with a boat you really know inside and out.

You know that in the important structural areas, which can't be seen and so don't help to sell the boat, no shortcuts were taken, and the boat wasn't build down to a budget. (Ie all the bulkheads will be fully glassed into the hulls, 100% epoxy construction etc....)

And you can get the kind of boat that the mass producers simply don't make. (For less than a huge price) Light, strong, performance cruisers.

[ausaviator]

I often find that people whom have built boats forget about the "hard times" during the build, when they got paid help or a "mate" to do some work who just happens to have been a professional boat builder.

But that doesn't stop them from telling everyone else how "easy" it was to build their boat!

I wonder what the completion rate is (apologies if someone mentioned this earlier) as with aircraft kits I've heard that the completion figure could be less than 20%. Aircraft are arguably a lot more simple than boats too.

[SaltyMonkey]

The aircraft have to go through a LOT of regulations and inspections though. That would be enough for me to bail

[cruiz9]

Prior to Building my boat i got several Australian Catamaran building companies to quote me on a fully finished, ready for long distance cruising schionning 1620 Wilderness Cat, they all averaged around $1.6m, which was comparable to any Imported production cat available at the time.
However This was far more than i wanted to spend, but not wanting to be put off i started doing some sums and i soon realized that if i was prepared to put in a little effort and sub contract the the work out i could make substantial savings.
Having planed this boat for some time prior and doing a lot of research into what i wanted on the boat it wasnt hard to come up with a total material cost ,also allowing for price rises during the build.
So armed with the best information i could get, i organized rent on already established boat building shed, employed a fully qualified semi retired super yacht builder and an offsider for him, my wife and i worked at our business 5 days a week but every week end we were in that boat shed toiling away at our dream to try and cut down labour costs and launch it as quick as possible. The most people we had working on the boat at any one time was seven, this was during the fairing and fitout stage.
Although it did take longer than planned 3yrs instead of 18mths and a lot of sweat and at times stress, the finished product was worth the effort.
Even though the build ran over time it still came in right on the budget i had given it 3 yrs prior.

And the cost you are probably wondering, Total $800,000.
This included
All contracted labour
Cost of Kit
Shed rent
Builders insurance
Painting
Full fitout inside
$30,000 woth of electronics
Carbon mast ,fore beam, daggerboards, steering wheel
Furling boom
2x 75hp Yanmar Diesels
Watermaker
RIB and outboard
Launching and crane costs
Set of laminated sails
And the list goes on, but it does go to show if you do your home work and a little bit of planning, you can get the boat of your dreams and not pay the earth for it.
Hope this helps any one thinking of doing it for themselves.