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Old 06-09-2008, 16:53   #151
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100 pages of specifications? Gosh, it might be easier to build a boat than write 100 pages of specifications! I think it's a good thing that your boat has gotten longer-waterline length is a key virtue in a boat, IMHO.
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Old 06-09-2008, 17:44   #152
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Hi Alan,

Marine engineer... just what i was thinking. And it sounds like you know what you want!
I will take a look at the company.

Do you have any multihulldesigner to check your drawings? I saw you got help with cad from a company in SA.
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Old 07-09-2008, 15:56   #153
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Alan,

Congratulations on the start of your cat! That's exiting stuff. Sounds like you found a good builder. Another advantage of a build in Cape Town is that it is a beautifull place to visit.

I too have looked carefully at the Hydrobubble as it is lightweight, inexpensive and did well in all the tests I have seen. The only concern I would have is that the bubble might foul in a wind shift. I was under the impression that they were no longer in business though, as I was not able to find any for sale the last time I looked. I may be wrong however.

Regarding launching and retrieval of the anchor from the front of the bridgedeck, have you any experience with this? I have not but am considering this arrangement with my boat. Charles Kanter writes scathingly about it and some I have talked to express concern about the chain coming in contact with the hull during deployment.

Anyhow, congratulations again and I look forward to following your progress. It's a beautifull boat.

Mike
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Old 07-09-2008, 16:14   #154
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Thanks Mike.

It seems like Hydrobubble no longer exsist! Thanks for the heads up. I guess it will be either a Rocna or a Manson Supreme then...Both should fit, but I need to check it.

I have heard of the possible problems of launching/retrieving anchors from this position, and can imagine situations where this could be an issue. As there is no forebeam on the boat, the only option would be some set-up with a roller between the bows, under the tramp. It can be sorted if there is a problem. the only way is to try.

Maybe motoring backwards slowly can solve any issues. Any ideas/experience is most welcome.

Yes Capetown is a lovely place to visit, not what I expected after hearing all the horror stories about South Africa. All the trouble is up north, well most of it.

I'm looking into creating a site/blog, just too many offers out there and not enough knowledge to sort them on my side, I guess I'll have to ask my son for some advice.

Regards

Alan
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Old 07-09-2008, 16:33   #155
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Originally Posted by Nordic cat View Post

I'm looking into creating a site/blog, just too many offers out there and not enough knowledge to sort them on my side, I guess I'll have to ask my son for some advice.


Regards

Alan
Joomla! Someone just had to build the ground. And then you can update it yourself. And if you have questions, it´s a great forum.
Version 1.0 is easiest. You can probably build it yourself.


Joomla! • Index page English forum

Joomla! • Information Danish forum
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Old 07-09-2008, 16:44   #156
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Originally Posted by mikereed100 View Post
Regarding launching and retrieval of the anchor from the front of the bridgedeck, have you any experience with this? I have not but am considering this arrangement with my boat. Charles Kanter writes scathingly about it and some I have talked to express concern about the chain coming in contact with the hull during deployment.


Mike
I though about going this way too, (for better weight distribution) but Bob Oram strongly advised against it, citing problems with the chain fouling the hulls particularly during deployment and retrieval.

There's also the problem of access to the anchor shackle etc.
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Old 07-09-2008, 16:47   #157
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Thanks Joakim,

That is the one I had narrowed it down to, lots of templates and add-ons to download, looks reasonable to use. I guess i just need to define what I want to be able to do first, functions I would like to have etc.

Hopefully I'll have a bit of time, damn job still takes too much of my time but I wouldn't let it go, keeps me on my toes...

Alan
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Old 07-09-2008, 18:27   #158
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I am mounting the anchor back on the front of the bridgedeck as well for much the same reasons, wieght and no chain over the beam. As I have a beam and catwalk I can put an access door in the catwalk to gain access to the anchor. The shank of the anchor will penetrate the beam lockers for fitment of the bridle.
See Schionnings site under sail boats, Wilderness, 13.2meter for a boat named Mojo to see some helpful photos of how they, Kal & Helga, did it.
I have read all the naysayers as well, such as Canter I was thinking of having a length of shock cord with a large hook that the chain can slide through and a line to the front beam so it can be hauled to the beam on occasions where it would be a problem, But then you don't have a beam.
I wanted to delete the beam on mine as well, save a good deal of wieght, but Schionnings claimed the loads on the hulls would be too great without it. Too much leverage on the hull skins near the bridge deck when sailing and the tramp would need huge tension to keep it up with a 6 meter span.

Mike
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Old 07-09-2008, 19:29   #159
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Given the demise of Hydrobubble maybe one of the new Rayas would fit your setup.

http://www.ancoralatina.com/acolhimento/ingles/description_carateristic/a_better_facility_of_use.html
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Old 07-09-2008, 22:06   #160
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That is the one [Joomla] I had narrowed it down to, lots of templates and add-ons to download, looks reasonable to use.
If reasonable means free, then yes. Powerful open source content management software. However, it's a learning curve for someone who is familiar with building static webs from something like Dreamweaver. Play around with their demo to get a feel, and read through all the installation docs to see if it's something that works for you. Lots of benefits by way of functionality, but there can be trade-off's for the power it has. Personally, I love it.
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Old 08-09-2008, 03:01   #161
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Quote:
I am mounting the anchor back on the front of the bridgedeck as well for much the same reasons, wieght and no chain over the beam. As I have a beam and catwalk I can put an access door in the catwalk to gain access to the anchor. The shank of the anchor will penetrate the beam lockers for fitment of the bridle.
See Schionnings site under sail boats, Wilderness, 13.2meter for a boat named Mojo to see some helpful photos of how they, Kal & Helga, did it.

My setup is basically the same, just that there will be a hinged cover to acess mounting of the bridle to the chain where the chain comes out of the beam locker.

Quote:
I have read all the naysayers as well, such as Canter I was thinking of having a length of shock cord with a large hook that the chain can slide through and a line to the front beam so it can be hauled to the beam on occasions where it would be a problem, But then you don't have a beam.
I have given this issue a bit more thought.
With a forward cockpit less than 2 meters from the winch, and 2 engines, I don't foresee any major problems with anchor retrieval. Visibility is good, communication is easy if someone else is controlling the winch. The boat is easy to manouver.
It will not be more of an issue than on a larger ship, with the hawsepipe on the side

Quote:
I wanted to delete the beam on mine as well, save a good deal of wieght, but Schionnings claimed the loads on the hulls would be too great without it. Too much leverage on the hull skins near the bridge deck when sailing and the tramp would need huge tension to keep it up with a 6 meter span.

Mike
I initially also questioned these points, but if we look at the large tris out there, we are talking much larger spans with much higher loads, and not many problems.

I spoke to Anton du Toit who is doing the NA work on the boat, and he has run the numbers and there is no problem to go without a forebeam. The wide decks, and large camber make an incredibly stiff structure.

There will be a Spectra line to support the trampoline.

We have a "deck" in the forward sections, that seals off the space below, from about 60 cms above the waterline. This space has a hatch for inspection, and for entering in case of inversion. Otherwise it is just another watertight room. The boat has about 10 different watertight spaces in each hull, some are used for storage, some as tankage and some are empty.

I would ask Schionning to take a new look at it, and maybe revise their answer, or specify a stronger lay-up for some sections.

Regards

Alan
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Old 08-09-2008, 06:16   #162
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Thanks Mike.

It seems like Hydrobubble no longer exsist! Thanks for the heads up. I guess it will be either a Rocna or a Manson Supreme then...Both should fit, but I need to check it.

I have heard of the possible problems of launching/retrieving anchors from this position, and can imagine situations where this could be an issue. As there is no forebeam on the boat, the only option would be some set-up with a roller between the bows, under the tramp. It can be sorted if there is a problem. the only way is to try.

Maybe motoring backwards slowly can solve any issues. Any ideas/experience is most welcome.

Yes Capetown is a lovely place to visit, not what I expected after hearing all the horror stories about South Africa. All the trouble is up north, well most of it.

I'm looking into creating a site/blog, just too many offers out there and not enough knowledge to sort them on my side, I guess I'll have to ask my son for some advice.

Regards

Alan
Alan,
Unless I have misunderstood you, I am a little confused by your statement about the possible problems of anchoring with the anchor from the front end of the bridgedeck and possible damage to the hulls when setting or retrieving it.
I thought that the Tobago (which you have) had this arrangement as it was an FP set up, or was this introduced later on by FP as it was certainly used on the Athena's.
Ian
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Old 08-09-2008, 06:37   #163
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Hi Ian,

The Athena uses the same system as the Tobago, with the bow roller ON the forward beam, and the chain goes over the trampoline.

See here: http://www.apaca.fr/pics/boat/100_585182602.jpg

What we are discussing is the anchor being stored directly into the anchor locker under the trampoline.

Have a look at the PDF I posted about 10 posts ago, that shows the whole setup.

Hope this is a bit clearer.


Cheers

Alan


P.S. Check out the prodder design on the Athena above, what I started with, but it kept bending with the Code 0.
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Old 08-09-2008, 07:52   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic cat View Post
I initially also questioned these points, but if we look at the large tris out there, we are talking much larger spans with much higher loads, and not many problems.

I spoke to Anton du Toit who is doing the NA work on the boat, and he has run the numbers and there is no problem to go without a forebeam. The wide decks, and large camber make an incredibly stiff structure.

There will be a Spectra line to support the trampoline.

We have a "deck" in the forward sections, that seals off the space below, from about 60 cms above the waterline. This space has a hatch for inspection, and for entering in case of inversion. Otherwise it is just another watertight room. The boat has about 10 different watertight spaces in each hull, some are used for storage, some as tankage and some are empty.

I would ask Schionning to take a new look at it, and maybe revise their answer, or specify a stronger lay-up for some sections.

Regards

Alan
Alan . Although it is not necessary to install a compression beam in the center of the trampoline it will make your trampoline very wide and thus springy, we could also have done without but having such a large trampoline is not a great asset.

Good luck with your building process
You have got a very good builder.

Gideon
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Old 08-09-2008, 07:59   #165
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Hi Alan, I thought that FP had changed the anchor position on the Athena as the bow roller on the Athena is an additional extra (best link I could find) 12m Fountaine Pajot ATHENA 38 Photo 1 photo=
and are now positioning them all (Athena, Lavezzi, Orana etc) so that they are stored in the chain locker under the tramps.
I have seen the picture of that prodder, I suppose in carbon fibre it would be better.
Sorry I am moving away from the thread, I did not know the Tobago was different therefore my question.
As with everybody else very interested to hear your progress as she is a great looking cat with a layout etc that is 95% of what I would agree is perfect and would suit me, and will be seriously interested to see her finished, as I may have some ideas that I would like to discuss with you in the future.
Ian
PS. off to La Rochelle tomorrow to Le Grand Pavois, anybody want any info or pics??, I will be looking at the first European finished Fusion 40 out of curiosity.
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