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Old 10-12-2018, 19:03   #1
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Neel 51

I have been investigating the possible purchase of a Neel 51, but I have some concerns as to the seakeeping ability of this boat in tough conditions. This is from two points of view. Firstly, the lack of bridgedeck clearance and secondly, the low area at stern in which the dingy is placed on supports where I fear significant wave incursion may occur.

Neel's response to my questions are as follows :-

Letís consider both the trimaran and the catamaran heeling by 12į, which is the safety angle not to be exceeded on a catamaran.
As shown in the graphics, the Righting moment (GZ) is much higher on the catamaran than on the trimaran.
A high GZ means more brutal and uncomfortable seakeeping.
At this angle of heel the catamaranís GZ is double that of the trimaran.
Therefore, sailing the trimaran is much smoother than sailing the catamaran.
The trimaran has less roll motion than the catamaran, as the center of buoyancy is never far downwind like on a catamaran.
Again, centered weight is the key to success and comfort.
In fact, all significant heavy equipment is located in the main central hull on a trimaran whereas it is distributed half and half in each hull on a catamaran.
Now I understand the argument that the tri will be inherently safer as it has a greater heeling moment. What I do not understand is how this relates to seakeeping in general. I know what happens to a cat in large wave action should it pitchpole, but what happens if one ama on a tri submerges. Further, I have experienced when a large wave runs onto a catamaran. Generally not a problem with reasonable bridgedeck clearance and a dingy on davits, but it seems to me there is a good chance, no matter how well tied down with a reasonable large following wave the dingy will be ripped of the transom.
Can anybody who has significant experience of large trimarans comment on this.
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Old 10-12-2018, 19:07   #2
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Re: Neel 51

Absolutely love the N51 and if money was not a factor, it would be my boat. Agree that the dinghy seems very exposed down there. I see no reason some custom davits could not be added to lift it up to a higher position when on passage.
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Old 16-12-2018, 05:23   #3
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Re: Neel 51

2090 nm
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Old 16-12-2018, 06:00   #4
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Re: Neel 51

Here is an Outremer 51's davit and dinghy:

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Here is a Neel 51:

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To me, if anything, the Neel's dinghy looks more secure and protected. Downwind, I'd think you would be sailing pretty flat with all three hulls in the water and the tons of buoyancy aft would raise the sterns over any stern wave.

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Old 10-01-2019, 14:44   #5
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Re: Neel 51

i have a neel 45 it s a lot of fun to sail and it feels very secure
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Old 01-05-2019, 11:29   #6
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Re: Neel 51

Check out this YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ducatiandlambo/videos
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Old 01-05-2019, 21:06   #7
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Re: Neel 51

Hi

Thanks for that youtube reference. It was very informative. It definitely confirms that Neel's quality control is non-existent. I would not be as patient as this owner with all the defects he details, given the money spent.
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Old 05-05-2019, 07:39   #8
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Re: Neel 51

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
I have been investigating the possible purchase of a Neel 51, but I have some concerns as to the seakeeping ability of this boat in tough conditions. This is from two points of view. Firstly, the lack of bridgedeck clearance and secondly, the low area at stern in which the dingy is placed on supports where I fear significant wave incursion may occur.

Neel's response to my questions are as follows :-

Letís consider both the trimaran and the catamaran heeling by 12į, which is the safety angle not to be exceeded on a catamaran.
As shown in the graphics, the Righting moment (GZ) is much higher on the catamaran than on the trimaran.
A high GZ means more brutal and uncomfortable seakeeping.
At this angle of heel the catamaranís GZ is double that of the trimaran.
Therefore, sailing the trimaran is much smoother than sailing the catamaran.
The trimaran has less roll motion than the catamaran, as the center of buoyancy is never far downwind like on a catamaran.
Again, centered weight is the key to success and comfort.
In fact, all significant heavy equipment is located in the main central hull on a trimaran whereas it is distributed half and half in each hull on a catamaran.
Now I understand the argument that the tri will be inherently safer as it has a greater heeling moment. What I do not understand is how this relates to seakeeping in general. I know what happens to a cat in large wave action should it pitchpole, but what happens if one ama on a tri submerges. Further, I have experienced when a large wave runs onto a catamaran. Generally not a problem with reasonable bridgedeck clearance and a dingy on davits, but it seems to me there is a good chance, no matter how well tied down with a reasonable large following wave the dingy will be ripped of the transom.
Can anybody who has significant experience of large trimarans comment on this.
With the expectation of "large following wave(s)", experienced offshore sailors remove dinghies from the transom area and store, properly secured, elsewhere on the boat. Low slung dinghies give better un-obstructed views from the cockpit , but would require re-locating earlier. Another boating compromise....
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Old 05-05-2019, 07:53   #9
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Re: Neel 51

the Neel 50 I've sailed had a set of davits off the stern of the port bridgedeck. the lines from the davits led to an electric winch at the helm. when it up on the davits the bottom of the rib was around the same height as the bridgedeck. with the rib in the water it was easy to step aboard from the lower section of the aft main hull.

though the boat was quite heavy at the time there was limited slamming in waves. we were mostly well off the wind.
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Old 08-05-2019, 06:32   #10
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Re: Neel 51

I've attached a cost comparison of the new Neel 47 and 51.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
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Old 22-09-2019, 23:23   #11
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Re: Neel 51

on the 45 you do have water that comes back in the rear, usually when the waves come at you sideway. indo like the system for the dinghy on the 51 seems way more secure than davits...and no chaffe! concerning quality and finish with neel. they seem to follow the same patern with each new boat serie..the first few ones are far from perfect but will be modified afterward by neel to improve their quality at the level of the more recent ones
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Old 23-09-2019, 04:44   #12
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Re: Neel 51

Always wanted to survey or go on board one of those Neel trimarans. A different concept compared to all the cats out there.
Cheers
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Old 23-09-2019, 12:16   #13
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Re: Neel 51

Just been aboard both a Neel 51 and 47 at the docks of the Grand Pavois boat show in La Rochelle. The Neel 51 (hull# 18+-) was a beautifully built boat, especially since it is still a 'young' design and from a small builder. The 47 had some cosmetic issues befitting a new design launch, but a very interesting design it is.
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Old 07-10-2019, 12:27   #14
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Re: Neel 51

Neel 47 with one toilet as standard so they expect 6/8 people to use one toilet ����

I love the Neel boats but they need to make some better choices and improve their build and finishing quality

Hopefully in 10-15 years when I should be in the market for a Neel they will provide a boat with toilets in guest cabins as standard and not optional!!
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Old 09-10-2019, 12:58   #15
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Re: Neel 51

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Originally Posted by beauris View Post
...and no chaffe! concerning quality and finish with neel. they seem to follow the same patern with each new boat serie..the first few ones are far from perfect but will be modified afterward by neel to improve their quality at the level of the more recent ones
I love design, sail quality and the room concept of the 45, chartered one a week in south france .... BUT the build quality I have seen myself and heard from frustrated owner kept me away from it.
Far from perfect is as far as the Pluto from earth in this case.


It really looks like a noobie hammered together a swimming ikea closet
as a project boat for 50k yes but for 250k+ for 2-3years old ikea closets absolute noGo. really sad to see this and that a company puts a boat with this quality to the boat shows show how much they care...not at all. Thats just ruined their reputation and will cost them much more the cover if they ever do.
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