Need any opinions on Fountaine Pajot 38, 42, 43

[rickwest]

I am looking to buy a catamaran under the $200k range to live aboard off the dock and travel the world for 10 years.
My budget puts quite a limit on the make and models out there.
I also want an offshore boat with a high bridgedeck clearance.
In the past I have owed and sailed a 39ft monohull and have captained 60 and 70ft catamarans for work.
The more I look the more confused I become.
It seems unlike monohulls which are more easily understood cats seem to cause many opinions for and against all the makes and models.
Thanks for any help you can give me.

[Cotemar]

There a lot of used FP 38 in the sub $200k Range

Fountaine Pajot 38 Boats For Sale

Just a few FP 42 in the Sub $200k range

Fountaine Pajot 42 Boats For Sale

No FP 43 in the Sub $200k range

Fountaine Pajot 43 Boats For Sale

[tomfl]

I had a long monohull background before becoming interested in multihulls, first tris and then cats.

Putting aside what I will call race boats, or semi race boats, I would say there are two classes of cruising cats.

First are what are sometimes called condomarans. These are cats with hulls with wide, and sometimes deep beams. They will frequently have keels instead of center/dagger boards to increase interior hull space. They suffer less from being overloaded than one might think. FPs fall in this group. There are several other builders that produce cats of this class.

The other class is defined by narrower hulls, with or without center/dagger boards. They often have less space than a similar size condomaran. Seawind and PDQ are two examples of this type of cat, at your price range. Often times these cats will have outboards in wells instead of an inboard/saildrive. There are some high end examples of this type of cat as well.

There are also the standard differences like core vs solid glass construction, simple rigs vs things like square tops. Another consideration is what I will call charter vs owner configuration. There are lots of FPs (and other condomarans) on the market with what is called charter configuration, meaning a head in every stateroom (do you really want 4 heads on your boat) and a simple under canvassed rig. The owners version is more geared towards an owner/wife in one hull and perhaps a guest couple in the other hull.

While there may be a few older boats that will not be up to your blue water requirements most modern 35+ foot cats, and for sure 40+ foot cats can probably handle more weather than you can.

[Tellie]

I'm seriously considering selling mine pretty soon. Going to down grade to a smaller mono as I'm the only one going sailing anymore and just don't need the Cat anymore.

[Cheechako]

Seems there are some threads on FP issues. I would rate the older Lagoons and Priveledges a better build.

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Seems there are some threads on FP issues. I would rate the older Lagoons and Priveledges a better build.

Seem to be with Lagoons also as these guy are building the most boats.
It just like the big GM & Ford. the bigger and more you make the more issues you have. Priveledge is not making many boat and charges top dollar for the ones they make.

[Cheechako]

I'm sure it's like most boats, depends on the year and model you're looking at. My TPI Lagoon was bulletproof with shaft logs not saildrives etc.. the Priveledges I looked at were well built too... but appeared to be very heavy. The FP of that vintage seemed to be very scantily built. (90's late 80's). The new Lagoons look to be condominiums to me. Not sure what you can go sailing in in a cat for less than $200k, but likely going to have to be an older one.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Not sure what you can go sailing in in a cat for less than $200k, but likely going to have to be an older one.

My 1999 Lagoon 410 went last year for that price, was structurally sound, almost spotless, and heavily loaded with all kind of cruising gear. Survey showed no problems, only thing that needed replacement was the house batteries.

I bought three years ago for even less, but that was due to seller circumstances.

So yes, you can get a turnkey boat for 200k USD.

[muskoka]

Originally Posted by tomfl

First are what are sometimes called condomarans. These are cats with hulls with wide, and sometimes deep beams. They will frequently have keels instead of center/dagger boards to increase interior hull space. They suffer less from being overloaded than one might think. FPs fall in this group.

OK, litmus test one, which models come in 4-cabin "condomaran" versions:

FP Lipari 41...........Yes
Seawind 1160........Yes
PDQ 42.................No

Litmus test 2, how much do these "condomarans" weigh:

FP Lipari 41...........7.6 T
Seawind 1160........7.0 T
PDQ 42.................7.2 T

The PDQ 42 is no longer in production and was originally built for a cruising couple. So it's vastly different than an FP which derives a lot of sales from the charter market. Seawind is marketing a 4 cabin layout with an eye to the charter market as well. All of them have mini-keels.

Originally Posted by tomfl

The other class is defined by narrower hulls, with or without center/dagger boards. They often have less space than a similar size condomaran. Seawind and PDQ are two examples of this type of cat, at your price range. Often times these cats will have outboards in wells instead of an inboard/saildrive. There are some high end examples of this type of cat as well.

And of course, the 3rd litmus test is performance. The fineness of hulls matter: I've never seen a PDQ but have seen my Lavezzi backed up against another club members Seawind 1160 and a Lagoon 380. The transoms on the FP are about midway between the Seawind and Lagoon 380, but the beam of the hulls is about the same.

And in terms of sail area:

Lipari 41..............90 sm = 11.8 sm per tonne
Seawind 1160.......70 sm = 10.0 sm per tonne
PDQ 42................79 sm = 11.0 sm per tonne

If you get rid of the Seawinds self-tacking jib you'll probably see similar sail areas with the Lipari as the mainsails are similarly sized.

But do the numbers support your bold claim that "FP's are condomarans and Seawind's are gazelles" - nope. I've sailed on a Seawind 1160 and of course my own FP Lavezzi and they really are pretty similar in terms of performance. I have no idea what the Lipari sails like, and I've never even seen a PDQ.

Excluding stupidly expensive exotics, the real performance cats are the Outremers and Catana's. At the other end of the spectrum, Privilege is probably the most beautifully fitted out luxury cat.

Tomfl, we all get that you think FP's are crap and your boat is fantastic. Maybe you could start a thread on the subject.

Lipari 41 | | Fountaine PajotFountaine Pajot
Seawind Catamarans
PDQ 42 ANTARES

And to the OP: I reckon you could easily pick up a nice cat for $200K. I'd suggest getting an owners version, and keep in mind that any load really starts to hurt performance. I think for living aboard a 40ft or over would be best - we lived on ours for about a year and a bit more space would have been nice.

[Cheechako]

I was amazed looking at a newer Lagoon from the bow end how fat/beamy the hulls were. absolutely ridiculous. The old TPI versions were nothing like that.
As far as loading goes, My experience was that a 42 cat would carry the same load as my 47 mono and stay stay much higher in the water (cat went down 1.5" , mono was down over 5") This boat cruised alongside my friends 48 ft Perry designed alum cutter and the two boats were about identical from Point A to Point B. The cat doing up to 12 knots or so in a good blow, the mono going to weather better if a lot of tacking was required. The cat never felt overloaded.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by muskoka

SNIP

Tomfl, we all get that you think FP's are crap and your boat is fantastic. Maybe you could start a thread on the subject.

SNIP

It is always bad form to use the imperial "we" since I am sure not everyone agrees with you.

Especially about your claim that I "think FP's are crap". I have never claimed that. What I pointed out was that there is a big difference between the beam of the hulls of a Seawind and other cats. I also pointed out that a lot of the FPs for sale are configured with four heads. I am not aware of any Seawind that has four heads. While this makes sense for the charter market most owners would only want two heads at most and many would be happy with only one head.

I have also pointed out that I have been on FPs and Lagoons and they have lots of space inside and are quite comfortable, especially at anchor where most of the time is spent. Both FPs, Lagoons, and other cats also can probably carry more weight than a Seawind.

Just for the record I have a Seawind 1000 with stern extensions. But I suspect the biggest reason my Seawind can outrun the FPs in the harbor is I have a big square top main while the FPs there have a simple roach main. I also fly a nice screecher on a six foot bowspirt. Most of the Seawind 1000s have outboards that are raised out of the water when sailing while FPs and other cats, with the exception of some PDQs, have inboards that have even with feathered props have more drag than my outboards.

I am happy with my boat, but I understand others may have different requirements.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by tomfl

It is always bad form to use the imperial "we" since I am sure not everyone agrees with you.

Especially about your claim that I "think FP's are crap". I have never claimed that. What I pointed out was that there is a big difference between the beam of the hulls of a Seawind and other cats. I also pointed out that a lot of the FPs for sale are configured with four heads. I am not aware of any Seawind that has four heads. While this makes sense for the charter market most owners would only want two heads at most and many would be happy with only one head.

I have also pointed out that I have been on FPs and Lagoons and they have lots of space inside and are quite comfortable, especially at anchor where most of the time is spent. Both FPs, Lagoons, and other cats also can probably carry more weight than a Seawind.

Just for the record I have a Seawind 1000 with stern extensions. But I suspect the biggest reason my Seawind can outrun the FPs in the harbor is I have a big square top main while the FPs there have a simple roach main. I also fly a nice screecher on a six foot bowspirt. Most of the Seawind 1000s have outboards that are raised out of the water when sailing while FPs and other cats, with the exception of some PDQs, have inboards that have even with feathered props have more drag than my outboards.

I am happy with my boat, but I understand others may have different requirements.

You responded to a request by the OP asking about FP 38, 42, 43. You then explained the virtues of your narrow hulls and stern extensions vs. FP's fat hulls and (4) heads. Your motivations are suspicious.

The OP never asked about a 33' boat extended to 35', he asked specifically about (3) FP models.

As far as your ability to outrun all the FPs in your harbor, where are you? I might have to pop in and put an end to that story!

[DotDun]

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...rs-105618.html

asking $210,000

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by DotDun

You responded to a request by the OP asking about FP 38, 42, 43. You then explained the virtues of your narrow hulls and stern extensions vs. FP's fat hulls and (4) heads. Your motivations are suspicious.

The OP never asked about a 33' boat extended to 35', he asked specifically about (3) FP models.

As far as your ability to outrun all the FPs in your harbor, where are you? I might have to pop in and put an end to that story!

I suggest you read the OP's whole post, not just the title. Then reread the part where the OP said:

"The more I look the more confused I become.
It seems unlike monohulls which are more easily understood cats seem to cause many opinions for and against all the makes and models.
Thanks for any help you can give me."

To me this sounds like he was not limiting his options to FPs. In any case I never bashed FPs, or any boat for that matter. In fact my post contained the following, which I would consider praise for FPs:

"They suffer less from being overloaded than one might think. FPs fall in this group."

If anyone has suspect motivation it seems to be you.

And if you ever get to Boot Key PM me if you want to see how fast my Seawind is.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by muskoka

.... I have no idea what the Lipari sails like, and I've never even seen a PDQ........

much the same as the Lavezzi - the lipari 41 is in fact 39 foot and the lavezzi 40 is in fact, you guessed it, 39 feet. The hulls appear to me to be almost identical save a slight lip on the transom. Claimed displacements are a little different, but wouldn't put too much store in that. I've sailed both, any difference in performance is likely to be more to do with the crew talent and less the respective boats (assuming similar sail plan), probably the other key would be what sort of prop each boat is dragging, a Lipari/lavezzi/almost any boat with good folding props will be measurably better, particularly in light airs than one with fixed blade props. Good propos are, paradoxically, one of the cheapest performance improvements a sailing cat can have (assuming inboard engines)

......Excluding stupidly expensive exotics, the real performance cats are the Outremers and Catana's.......

Catana - coming good again apparently, but for a while they got silly heavy. If I was buying a Catana, I would want verification of displacement on launch.