Multihull storm tactics?

[sneuman]

Although I will admit to having a prejudice for monohulls, I do find myself from time to time crewing on a big cat. I'd be interested to hear a discussion here of the best heavy weather tactics for a multi.

Thx

[GordMay]

5 Rules for Cruising Sailors (Mono' & Multi'):
1. Try to sail on the top of the water. Do not go near the edges nor bottom of it (these dangerous areas can be recognized by the appearance of ground, buildings, trees, and the like), as it can be much more difficult to sail comfortably there.
2. When one of two bilge pumps fail, the other can always keep you afloat ‘till you reach the wreck-site.
3. Never sail with someone braver than yourself.
4. It’s always better to be ashore, wishing you were out there; than out there, wishing you were ashore.
5. In the ongoing battle between floating fibreglass objects going six knots, and the ground going zero kts - the ground has never lost.

Great rules to live by GORD
Not having much experience aboard a multi in weather, I can not give any first hand experience, but I have gleemed from previous conversations here that a series drogue is a must, and a parachute anchor is a must not. Reef early reef often takes on new meaning with a multihull, as they do not spill the wind in the same way as a mono. The one thing I can say from experience is you will not know you are over canvassed until something breaks. Last week, we blew out a spinnaker in 25kts on my friend's tri. We were sailing along at 12-14kts, and everything seemed good. The boat felt like it was in the groove, and was not doing anything that would indicate we were over canvassed. Then, BANG. No more spinnaker. Considering that while we were trying to unwrap the torn sail from the headstay, we were maintaining 10kts under the main and a very small mizzen, I guess it really was time to reduce sail. FWIW, the next thing to go was the mizzen boom at the gooseneck. We have dubbed my friend's boat as "self reefing"

[Kettlewell]

Why do you denigrate parachute sea anchors when you have no experience with them? I have used one numerous times on a 32-foot cruising catamaran. I carry one on my 38-foot monohull, though I have never used it on the mono. In my experience, the parachute brought our cat under control in Force 9-10 offshore conditions, allowing us to leave the boat to tend herself while we rested. The parachute has also been used several times to steady the boat while conducting repairs to the steering system offshore. I believe a parachute sea anchor, properly deployed, is a safe method of dealing with heavy weather on a multihull. In every case I have read of where the sea anchor has failed, it was improperly deployed. The most common scenario is not letting out enough scope (300-400 feet minimum in a Force 9-10).

I am not claiming to have the final answer on the subject, however it has been discussed in previous threads, and the reoccuring theme seems to be that the parachute anchor is not a particularly effective piece of storm tackle on a multi. You are correct on my lack of seatime on a multi. I have spent most of my time on monos, and my trimaran is still a few months from launching, but the previous conversations on parachutes would lead me to take a cautious approach at the very least.

[Kettlewell]

I wouldn't trust anyone who claims to have the final word on this subject! Too many variables. That's one caveat I must use--your boat and set up may vary from what I tried. I can't find the negative thread on parachute sea anchors here, but I do know that I have read negative posts other places and they tend to be pure speculation by those who have no experience with parachutes. The Drag Device Data Base book has loads of positive reports on parachute sea anchors. Anyone interested should read that book. It also has a lot on drogues. I too am very interested in the Jordan series drogue. The big problem with it (I am speculating based on my own experiences) is that the boat will be tethered by the stern with the weather breaking over the boat from behind. With modern multihulls this could be disaster--I'm thinking of the sliding patio glass doors that many cats feature. Our cat had a solid door and a small cockpit and we still filled it a few times when riding to a parachute off the stern (not the recommended practice!). It is better to point the bow into really bad stuff--at least on most boats. It is certainly drier and more comfortable, and that is where the windlass will be, which will be very helpful in controlling the parachute and getting it in.

I guess it is a matter of who you find credible. You do make some good points, and I am certainly not against any piece of gear that works the way it should. Sounds like your experience was positive.

[Steve Rust]

snueman
Go back in the multihull archives to 2-22-04. There is a dicussion on this subject so I don't have to repeat myself. As far as drogue vs parachute I think they both have their place. My idea of the Jordan Drogue is that it is not ment to stop the boat but to slow it down thus it should always be tied off on the stern. The drogue should allow the boat to acclerate to a degree when hit by a braking wave but keep the boat from surfing down large waves or sailing to fast in high winds. A parachute is always used off the bow and is meant to stop the boat to a large degree. The parachute should be in sync with the boat and wave train ie; on the crests at the same time. The drogue should be out of sync( this may not apply to the Jordan drogue but would to others like the Galerider, Seabrake,etc). I think the parachute may get a bad rap due to improper deployment. This is not something to cobble up at the last minute in the middle of a Force 9 storm. It should be dedicated gear that you have practiced with and know how to deploy properly.

[sneuman]

presumably a cat won't heave without assistance from a sea anchor - and whether or not to use one seems to be some dispute on whether a sea anchor is safe.

assume lying ahull is not an option either.

is that right?

[smm]

Originally Posted by sneuman

presumably a cat won't heave without assistance from a sea anchor - and whether or not to use one seems to be some dispute on whether a sea anchor is safe.

It is going to depend on the cat. The modern large-main small-jib rigs usually won't heave to all that well with full main (but then, why would you?) because the main just overpowers the jib. With one or two reefs, Endless Summer will heave to just fine. Spent a pleasant few hours off Lord Howe that way, waiting for dawn in a freshening NW'ly.

As for lying ahull, I agree that, like monohulls, it works better than anyone would expect.

Lastly, wrt. to series drogues and getting pooped, I think that you need to look closely at weight and windage. These are very different for a light, 6-ton cat and the 20-ton mono of similar length, and key to the whole series drogue parachute debate.

-Scott

[mikemr]

Hello, could you go into a little more detail about how you heave to in your cat. I have tried with mine but it either blows off or goes into irons. Do you backwind the jib, release the main and lock the rudders to weather?

[S/V Elusive]

Dang it Scott - Stop denigrating!

Kettlewell - believe me when I tell you that Scott (Kai) really wasn't denigrating anything, but relaying his thoughts on the matter. We ARE allowed to do that sort of thing ya know.

[Strygaldwir]

From discussions with other cat owners, they were opposed to a parachute because it was so hard to retrieve in questionable weather. 25 knots of wind is not enough to have a chute deployed but is still enough to make it really hard to get the thing back aboard. They were in favor of the series type drogues.

25 knots with the spinnacher up seems rather, ahhhh, ridicules. All the spinnachers that I have seen spec'd are light air sails. 1.5 - maybe 3 oz nylon. They are not going to hold in a 25 knots. I'd bring mine down at 12 knots.

Don't beat into the wind, lot easier to run with it. Yes, ref early. I tend to leave my sails up a little bit longer than most, but they are really heavy sails, on a pretty heavy cat.

Make sure you have a good place to pilot from. I have seen many cats with the helms in the aft part of the cockpit with no bimini, or dodger to keep the weather off. This is VERY uncomfortable. Try to have some protection against the wind. I have had to use a dive mask once, the wind and rain was so high and I couldn't see through the windscreen and had to take it down.

I usually turn both engines on in heavier weather. My normal practice is to run on one engine. In a blow, it is nice to have the power of both screws, it can help in some situations.

Get the Dashaws book on heavy weather sailing. Most of it applies to cats.

Read the weather faxes and stay out of really bad weather! ;-) The cat will love you for it.

Keith

[Jimske]

Dashaws book? I searched Amazon and didn't come up with anything. More info please.

Jim

[Steve Rust]

Kai
On my Searunner I have a storm staysail instead of a trisail. This is probably due to the Searunner being a true cutter with the mast stepped further aft than a sloop or a sloop rigged with an inner forestay. Along with a main with three reefs like Kettlewell. That is the recommended combo for the Searunner with the staysail being the last one standing. A drag device would normally be used in combo with the storm sail to control speed.

Here is a quote from one of Jim Brown's books:" Experience has shown that drogues are effective when used in combination with a small storm jib. Conversely, they have proven ineffective without the storm jib. It is necessary to carry enough sail to keep the vessel moving at four or five knots even in the troughs. It is the resistance of the drogue being dragged through the water that generates the desired steering control. Besides steering control, the drogue also controls speed. Running off in severe storms without a drogue, even under bare poles, the multihull tries to overtake the wave ahead. This is to be avoided because, instead of the bows climbing up the back of the wave ahead, they may dive in."

I have not come across any info on sizing and how they would compare to a similar sized monohull. My guess would be that they would be similar in size or a little smaller. The multihull is more easily driven but you have to factor in the drag device also.