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Old 12-09-2016, 17:26   #31
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Re: Length of Cat vs comfort/safety

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As my Wharram capsized, twice! On its mooring, as well as not being able to sail to windward well enough to get out of trouble, I would dispute the claims for being safer than more modern designs.
Needless to say, i no longer own a Wharram.
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Old 12-09-2016, 18:05   #32
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Re: Length of Cat vs comfort/safety

[QUOTE=Dulcesuenos;2211110]Comfort also has a lot to do with hull design and bridge deck design and clearance. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't spent considerable time on those boats in a variety of conditions. Our 38 Athena pounds much much less than has our 38 leopard which rode better and pounds less than a 42 and 46 leopard. The manta 42 rides nicely and with less hobby horsing than a manta 38 or 40 though all 3 ride and handle well. Certain boats can be heavy and extending the WL a few feet makes a difference in motion/ comfort. Boats with flared hull chines/ sides common on man production boats, catch waves which make a very bad smacking noise and also when the forward berths are over the bridge deck and its a lower bridge deck, the hull gets smacked a lot and makes sleeping forward tough while offshore. While all 4 are safe in anything but horrific conditions you just wouldn't want to be out in, I know which one is most comfortable for us offshore. The 46 is obviously much more comfortable at anchor lol.




I agree 100%
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Old 12-09-2016, 19:22   #33
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Re: Length of Cat vs comfort/safety

Bridge deck clearance is paramount importance to me for sailing offshore.

I hate pounding the bridge deck when sailing to windward. It's hard to relax and go to sleep off watch when the bridge deck is slamming.

The first time I sailed to New Zealand, I saw four catamarans in Whangarei getting repairs to their bridge deck. Slamming had taken a major toll on the structure of the bridge deck.

If you are not sailing offshore/around the world, and if most of your sailing is not to windward, then you won't likely create a demolition derby by slamming your bridge deck.

If you are sailing around the world, then get a yacht with the highest bridge deck clearance that you can afford.
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Old 15-09-2016, 16:51   #34
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Re: Length of Cat vs comfort/safety

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Bridge deck clearance is paramount importance to me for sailing offshore.

I hate pounding the bridge deck when sailing to windward. It's hard to relax and go to sleep off watch when the bridge deck is slamming.

The first time I sailed to New Zealand, I saw four catamarans in Whangarei getting repairs to their bridge deck. Slamming had taken a major toll on the structure of the bridge deck.

If you are not sailing offshore/around the world, and if most of your sailing is not to windward, then you won't likely create a demolition derby by slamming your bridge deck.

If you are sailing around the world, then get a yacht with the highest bridge deck clearance that you can afford.
Doesn't a higher bridgedeck mean less stable as it would then have a higher center of gravity?
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Old 15-09-2016, 17:47   #35
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Re: Length of Cat vs comfort/safety

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Doesn't a higher bridgedeck mean less stable as it would then have a higher center of gravity?
Not usually, a higher bridge deck may mean you don't have 7' of headroom in the saloon. You may have 6'2". It does not necessarily mean higher cog. Besides coach roofs don't typically weigh all that much.
Our Athena has great bridge deck clearance, carries a big load very well, has decent saloon headroom yet from the outside appears to have a low coach roof

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Old 17-09-2016, 06:14   #36
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Re: Length of Cat vs comfort/safety

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Doesn't a higher bridgedeck mean less stable as it would then have a higher center of gravity?
A higher bridge deck generally means a larger cat. Designs usually are proportional. Small cats with really high bridge decks look odd and leggy in appearance. I suppose you could get stability issues if the bridge deck is excessively high in a small cat.

Usually the issue is the opposite. The bridge deck is built too low which compromises the boat for windward sailing offshore.
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Old 17-09-2016, 06:27   #37
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Re: Length of Cat vs comfort/safety

there is also lagoon ( and most other recent cruisers) receipe where they make hulls wider and bridgedeck clearance is fine for inside width that is narrower due to wider hulls. Nacelle also helps nicely with dissipating waves energy.

So in 40 ft boat you get little slamming and enough headroom.

pretty good balance in my opinion.
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Old 17-09-2016, 06:57   #38
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pirate Re: Length of Cat vs comfort/safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by KJThomas View Post
As my Wharram capsized, twice! On its mooring, as well as not being able to sail to windward well enough to get out of trouble, I would dispute the claims for being safer than more modern designs.
Needless to say, i no longer own a Wharram.
Surprising what you can sell with a few naked bodies
Having owned 2 Tiki's I find this somewhat surprising.. sailed both in winds upto F8's with never a hint of hull lift.. as capable to windward as a good bilge keeler.. as to flipping at anchor/mooring I'm gobsmacked.
What do you think was the cause..??
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Old 17-09-2016, 08:14   #39
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Re: Length of Cat vs comfort/safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by KJThomas View Post
As my Wharram capsized, twice! On its mooring, as well as not being able to sail to windward well enough to get out of trouble, I would dispute the claims for being safer than more modern designs.
Needless to say, i no longer own a Wharram.
Surprising what you can sell with a few naked bodies
The first cat that our family had was a Wharram Tane 27 feet long. We sold due to performance issues (the boat's) and his desire to design and build his own cat. We have always had a love /hate relationship with the design.
How did you're boat flip
Davi
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Old 17-09-2016, 14:15   #40
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Re: Length of Cat vs comfort/safety

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Doesn't a higher bridgedeck mean less stable as it would then have a higher center of gravity?

The bridgedeck floor and cabin top are relatively light structures. Raising them will raise COG, but only slightly.
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Old 17-09-2016, 14:23   #41
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pirate Re: Length of Cat vs comfort/safety

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Originally Posted by admiralslater View Post
The first cat that our family had was a Wharram Tane 27 feet long. We sold due to performance issues (the boat's) and his desire to design and build his own cat. We have always had a love /hate relationship with the design.
How did you're boat flip
Davi
He's moved on since the early clunky 70's designs..
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Old 17-09-2016, 17:59   #42
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Re: Length of Cat vs comfort/safety

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Also incredibly useful for getting in and out of dinghies and kayaks. I added a pair to help my wife (knee replacement), since she was unable to climb around. Like having a floating dock at the back of the boat. There are many good reasons they have become ubiquitous on cats, and no down sides that I can see.
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Old 19-09-2016, 04:45   #43
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Re: Length of Cat vs comfort/safety

We have both a 36 Pdq and a 45 Outremer. I think so much of the question relates to the original design parameters.
When the 36 was conceived as a coastal cruiser and it does that job very well. I have seen them used successfully as far south as Grenada. I know that is not the deep blue but those that know the area understand that it can provide some challenging sailing. One of the 36s even crossed the Atlantic something that was outside it's design criteria. It is a comfortable and safe coastal cruiser.
Our Outremer was designed by Gerard Danson as a passage maker, We sail it in the Caribbean comfortably in 6 -10 seas with true wind over twenty. It has ample bridge deck clearance and suitable freeboard. It has much less interior space than more modern designs but I feel that provides better sea keeping abilities.
I would not be as comfortable in the Grenadines on the 36 but I would do it.
The Outremer is not as nimble as my 36 which I can beat to weather nicely on my own and has a large sail plan. So it is no as simple to use as the 36 in close quarters.
Each boat has its strengths. Both are safe but you generally can't deny that the longer the water line the better the ride.
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Old 19-09-2016, 07:30   #44
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Length of Cat vs comfort/safety

We have owned a Fountaine Pajot Mahe 36 and Helia 44 Evo.
Both are Great Sailing catamarans.

Weight and Water Line Length make a huge, huge difference in how comfortable and safe the boats feel in heavy weather.
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