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Old 22-05-2015, 07:13   #421
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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You forgot one....

"Those only thought to be a fool will eventually open their mouth and remove all doubt!"
No, I did not forget but it reminds me of this one. "Arguing with a fool only proves there are two"

If you are so sure of your position why do you test it? Could it be because as Winston Churchill once said. "Even fools can be right sometimes"

We can bat quotes back and forward all day if you want - it does not bother me. There are plenty to be found on the internet as you have just discovered but original thought is what I like best. Do you have any?
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Old 22-05-2015, 07:30   #422
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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PROBLEM SOLVED!

For those SCARED of catamarans, there is special pricing available this summer for this "Catamaran Capsize Resolution Rig" (available in a variety of colors to match your boat!!). They are including a free tow strap customized to fit the aft mooring cleats on your cat!!!

Be sure to read the literature and get the model that works in 40+' seas!!! You certainly want to cover the highly desirable 'fringe areas', including the North Atlantic in January!!!


I'm a believer in capsize prevention.

I have been thinking about this for 2 loong seconds and here is my solution: As bad weather, a freak wave or a sudden gust approaches we just drop the mast through a hole in the bridgedeck. This becomes a huge keel. Then we will simply dive to the mast base (which is now the new masthead or keel-head) and add a ton of lead that we carried onboard for that purpose for the last few years.
Now plenty of huge plastic bags are filled with water and hung off the side of our boat until it's barely floating. Ideally the bridgedeck should sit in the water to minimize the structural loads by bridgedeck slamming in 6inch seas.

Now we have a barge that is more stable than any monohull of similar size. Nothing is going to capsize it. I don't care if it falls apart with the first 5ft wave or sinks but it won't capsize.


With all the advances in technology I am sure we will see this in the very short future. Anyone who disagrees with my out of the box thinking is an !!§§/&%/( fool.
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Old 22-05-2015, 07:40   #423
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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I'm a believer in capsized prevention.

I have been thinking about this for 2 loong seconds and here is my solution: As bad weather, a freak wave or a sudden gust approaches we just drop the mast through a hole in the bridgedeck. This becomes a huge keel. Then we will simply dive to the mast base (which is now the new masthead or keel-head) and add a ton of lead that we carried onboard for that purpose for the last few years.
Now plenty of huge plastic bags are filled with water and hung off the side of our boat until it's barely floating. Ideally the bridgedeck should sit in the water to minimize structural load by bridgedeck slamming in 6inch seas.

Now we have a barge that is more stable than any monohull of similar size. Nothing is going to capsize it. I don't care if it falls apart with the first 5ft wave or sinks but it won't capsize.


With all the advances in technology I am sure we will see this the very short future. Anyone who disagrees with my out of the box thinking is an !!§§/&%/(.
I like it!!

Now we have multiple potential solutions! We simply need to find someone who cares enough to test each one!
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Old 22-05-2015, 08:18   #424
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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I'm a believer in capsized prevention.

I have been thinking about this for 2 loong seconds and here is my solution: As bad weather, a freak wave or a sudden gust approaches we just drop the mast through a hole in the bridgedeck. This becomes a huge keel. Then we will simply dive to the mast base (which is now the new masthead or keel-head) and add a ton of lead that we carried onboard for that purpose for the last few years.
Now plenty of huge plastic bags are filled with water and hung off the side of your boat until it's barely floating. Ideally the bridgedeck should sit in the water to minimize structural load by bridgedeck slamming in 6inch seas.

Now you have a barge that is more stable than any monohull of similar size. Nothing is going to capsize it. I don't care if it falls apart with the first 5ft wave or sinks but it won't capsize.


With all the advances in technology I am sure we will see this the very short future. Anyone who disagrees with my out of the box thinking is an !!§§/&%/(.

Not sure why you loathe mono's - I don't hate cats and in fact I quite like them. It's not an Islam v's Christianity thing here though. Its about the 180 maximum and I am not talking about the game of darts which is why the focus here is on cats and not mono's if that's ok with you... valued thread contributor. It is a very interesting subject, for me at least anyway and many others I suspect who combine the words catamaran and capsize in their google searches.

Maybe you are are at the wrong party? I think "cats are cool and mono's are crap" is being held a few doors down. However, whilst you are here pour your self a drink and if you don't like the taste you know where the door is.
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Old 22-05-2015, 08:57   #425
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Not sure why you loathe mono's - I don't hate cats and in fact I quite like them.

[...]

Maybe you are are at the wrong party? I think "cats are cool and mono's are crap" is being held a few doors down. However, whilst you are here pour your self a drink and if you don't like the taste you know where the door is.
You said that monos are more stable than cats. I just made my cat as stable as the best mono to counter this.


So don't try to tell me I have any resentiments against monos. In my book anything that floats is good.
Personally I like some of them for their look but don't like the heel and can't stand the rocking motion at anchor but that's just me. I don't consider multis generally superior just because they are my choice.


But I don't like that folks like you spread fear of capsize by balthering about "solutions" to "problems" that statistically don't exist.
That will drive interested folks away from cats or sailing in general just because YOU have some fear of capsize founded by YOUR lack of offshore cat experience.


I think others have asked before: Would you mind to share your sailing experience with us? Have you ever been offshore for a few days or more? In anything above F5?
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Old 22-05-2015, 09:13   #426
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Originally Posted by rabbi View Post
I'm a believer in capsize prevention.

I have been thinking about this for 2 loong seconds and here is my solution: As bad weather, a freak wave or a sudden gust approaches we just drop the mast through a hole in the bridgedeck. This becomes a huge keel. Then we will simply dive to the mast base (which is now the new masthead or keel-head) and add a ton of lead that we carried onboard for that purpose for the last few years.
Now plenty of huge plastic bags are filled with water and hung off the side of our boat until it's barely floating. Ideally the bridgedeck should sit in the water to minimize the structural loads by bridgedeck slamming in 6inch seas.

Now we have a barge that is more stable than any monohull of similar size. Nothing is going to capsize it. I don't care if it falls apart with the first 5ft wave or sinks but it won't capsize.


With all the advances in technology I am sure we will see this in the very short future. Anyone who disagrees with my out of the box thinking is an !!§§/&%/( fool.
I'll start saving used fishing sinkers for the lead. As understand you I drop them down keel converted mast? I love it.
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Old 22-05-2015, 09:39   #427
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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I'll start saving used fishing sinkers for the lead. As understand you I drop them down keel converted mast? I love it.
No... You swallow them first Cadence. Don't forget that bit. That way you can keep all your crap together in one place.
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Old 22-05-2015, 10:46   #428
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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No... You swallow them first Cadence. Don't forget that bit. That way you can keep all your crap together in one place.
Great idea! I wasn't swimming down with the lead. If. I swallow it I can squat over the now deck level mast top.
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Old 22-05-2015, 11:11   #429
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Great idea! I wasn't swimming down with the lead. If. I swallow it I can squat over the now deck level mast top.
You still have your poop deck.... don't worry.
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Old 22-05-2015, 11:29   #430
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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You still have your poop deck.... don't worry.
A little levity on this threat is a welcome happening.
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Old 22-05-2015, 11:29   #431
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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I'll start saving used fishing sinkers for the lead. As understand you I drop them down keel converted mast? I love it.
That's crowd research at best, taking an idea and improving it rgiht away.

Start collecting finshing sinkers now. Melt them and cast them into the shape of a mast sliders. That way you can slide them down the already submerged mast to create the ballast.
perrrfect! You don't have to dive anymore!
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Old 22-05-2015, 11:48   #432
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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No... You swallow them first Cadence. Don't forget that bit. That way you can keep all your crap together in one place.
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You still have your poop deck.... don't worry.
You are starting to get insulting.

So far we haven't called you anything but obviously inexperienced so please ...
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Old 22-05-2015, 11:54   #433
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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That's crowd research at best, taking an idea and improving it rgiht away.

Start collecting finshing sinkers now. Melt them and cast them into the shape of a mast sliders. That way you can slide them down the already submerged mast to create the ballast.
perrrfect! You don't have to dive anymore!
Since it was suggested I swallow the sinkers, the deposit method is fast enough to save the boat. Only question, what grade sandpaper to I use for toilet tissue,20 grit is a little rough.

This has gotten about as left field as the original concept.
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Old 22-05-2015, 12:28   #434
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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That's crowd research at best, taking an idea and improving it rgiht away.

Start collecting finshing sinkers now. Melt them and cast them into the shape of a mast sliders. That way you can slide them down the already submerged mast to create the ballast.
perrrfect! You don't have to dive anymore!

Ok rabbi, if you wana be clever lets be a little bit clever. Lets take your boat as a case point. It has I am thinking a BCL of about 16 foot.

Next, lets see where the average stability lines cross over on your cat v's a mono. Seems to be about 55 degrees when your boat gives up its righting ability and starts to press down and trip over itself where by comparison the mono's maximum resistant starts to kicks in.. (I do hate these comparisons but you do seem to like them so much) Seems you are safe at 55 degrees(just about)

Now lets apply some basic trig to see what size wave will produce a 16 foot slope at 55 degrees. Ding dong la de da%$!. The computer says a 12 and a half foot wave. That is just a smidgen over the average wave height of all the worlds oceans. That's a mean height of the size of you standing up from the waves centreline.

It kind of means you can't go anywhere in your boat rabbi. Now I start to get your drift why you hate mono's so much.

Yeh mono's are crap if you insist but you would not see me going off piste in your catamaran that's for sure. - unless of course it had some fanciful tech.

May I ask why you bought it? Good deal on a coffee maker or something.
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Old 22-05-2015, 13:15   #435
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

I find the solutions very innovative but there is a simpler one: you just take a plain, standard, no-gadgets catamaran without any no-flip devices and then restrict your cruising area to down under only. You see, it's all upside-down there so even inverted, you technically are in the same orientation as the cats in the northern hemisphere that are not flipped (yet).

This solution was discussed before and some remarked that may be the picture was for light wind conditions when the current is faster than the wind and thus it makes more sense to stick not only the mast down, but deployed sails as well!

There is one catch: you still need the escape hatches in the bottom as clearly illustrated by the guy down under there because without them you would be forced to be upside-down all the time.

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