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Old 04-03-2015, 16:12   #46
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Re: Internet on Sailboat

Most sailboats I've seen with sattelite antennas , had it mounted on the stern , down low.


But I see your point about coverage.. great for european coastal cruisers then..

inmasat sailor seems great , exept speed.. and to even get half a Mbit, you need a 60cm antenna..

I guess we still have to wait some time before afordable internet on the high seas is a reality , for you ocean-crossers.

-manitu
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Old 04-03-2015, 17:07   #47
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Re: Internet on Sailboat

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Originally Posted by manitu View Post
Most sailboats I've seen with sattelite antennas , had it mounted on the stern , down low.


But I see your point about coverage.. great for european coastal cruisers then..

inmasat sailor seems great , exept speed.. and to even get half a Mbit, you need a 60cm antenna..

I guess we still have to wait some time before afordable internet on the high seas is a reality , for you ocean-crossers.

-manitu
if we get into size .. you need 64x65cm and 18kg to get maximum of 432/432kbps, but you need 111x114cm and 65kg to get 10/4... can you imagine what size of of ship you need to have such dish mounted on

another thing to consider is what you will use your internet connection for? if you want to download movies all the time, than you are probably better off by going to local cinema but if you use it only to send some text email and don't need more than few MB/mont, than you can pay few hundred dolars and work the magic

so.. there is also this thing you can bound few ships and share the plan in the pool...

and there is also a thing you can have multiple antennas on the ship and bound them into one account (more antennas more bandwidth)

another thing to consider about afordability... if I give myself a monthly salary of 1.400EUR neto, it is, for my company, the same cost as unlimited data plan... so, I can reduce my salary from 2.475EUR neto to 1.427EUR neto and have unlimited data plan across the earth -- afordability is all about personal perspective (we all can dream ;])
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Old 04-03-2015, 18:34   #48
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Re: Internet on Sailboat

aaaand what about this one? Apparently they offer unlimited browsing for US$125/Month. Previously somebody mentioned Iridium is the reliable one but looks too good to be true. has anybody experience with it?
Iridium GO! - PredictWind.com
here is were I read about it: Iridium GO! + PredictWind for Totem’s Indian Ocean debut | Sailing Totem
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Old 04-03-2015, 18:40   #49
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Re: Internet on Sailboat

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Originally Posted by lore927 View Post
aaaand what about this one? Apparently they offer unlimited browsing for US$125/Month. Previously somebody mentioned Iridium is the reliable one but looks too good to be true. has anybody experience with it?
Iridium GO! - PredictWind.com
here is were I read about it: Iridium GO! + PredictWind for Totem’s Indian Ocean debut | Sailing Totem
sure only problem is "The data speed is 2.4 Kbits/s" ... that is slower than dialup i had in mid 90'

but if you need to send emails without large attachments it is ok
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Old 05-03-2015, 07:01   #50
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Re: Internet on Sailboat

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
... all businesses EXCEPT finance are able to slow down and still make a killing......
That's actually not 100% true. I'm not a financial trader, yet I need high-speed Net access every day, rain or shine, big blue or little, for my Internet business. BIG megabyte files being passed back and forth every day and night, and my clients don't want to read "Gee Bob, sorry to take so long getting back to you."



Ps; To ka4wja: Excellent detailed reply. Thanks for that! I'm in the same boat as the OP.
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Old 05-03-2015, 07:09   #51
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Re: Internet on Sailboat

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Originally Posted by PortClydeMe View Post
I need high-speed Net access every day, rain or shine, big blue or little, for my Internet business. BIG megabyte files being passed back and forth every day and night

Looks like you might understand something about compression protocols then...Can they be coupled with a system like Iridium go and make the connection usable somehow?

I am referring mainly to connections to remote databases that return large result-sets and to trading platforms, the issue in the latter is mainly the response delay which I am afraid is more a serious issue with any satellite connection.

I guess I should be able to probably emulate this somehow from home, have you ever tried?
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Old 05-03-2015, 07:11   #52
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Re: Internet on Sailboat

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Don't get me wrong, I DO agree with daddle, kb79, etc.....
If you can afford the $$$$ for this set-up.....why work at all????
Just go sailing!!!!

John
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Why? Because the work nets $750K per year, on average. Why stop that income just to go cruising. Combining them = happy sailing days, indeed.
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Old 05-03-2015, 07:18   #53
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Re: Internet on Sailboat

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Originally Posted by lore927 View Post
Looks like you might understand something about compression protocols then...Can they be coupled with a system like Iridium go and make the connection usable somehow?

I am referring mainly to connections to remote databases that return large result-sets and to trading platforms, the issue in the latter is mainly the response delay which I am afraid is more a serious issue with any satellite connection.

I guess I should be able to probably emulate this somehow from home, have you ever tried?
Not sure if I understand you correctly, or not, yet my business simply entails sending and receiving e-mails with large megabyte attachments. Mostly MS Word, PowerPoint, etc. I'm not so concerned about response delay, as I'm not day trading (for example). However, I need, and my clients need, same-day responses. Daily, suffices for me. I don't even need hourly.

EDIT: I have to add, I do need full-time net access when working, not just heavy e-mail file exchanges. So, maybe response delay IS a major consideration for me. Still researching.
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Old 05-03-2015, 09:23   #54
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Re: Internet on Sailboat

you people sure make a lot of fuss about internet

1. get in touch with your admin and ask him what tipe of connection would be ok for your tipe of business.
2. buy it
3. work it
4. live it

if your business is build up for miliseconds, then there is no help in any mobile system out there as every mobile system produces a large latency and in satelite broadband this latency is 0.5-0.7s, compared to 0.15-0.20s over mobile phone.

I don't think that any business that is human driven needs such responsive connection. If you are in trading waters go and emulate the connection from your home seat and you'll see if you'll be ok with it, but I don't think that 0.5s will make such a problem for human interaction with the database... BTW if you're making so much money that you are thinking about stalite acces, then there is no problem to hire a local admin for two days to make a simulation

For anybody else who is thinking about working with satelite connection and uses his connection for emails with large attachments: If you're doing your business this way, it is alreaty a faulthy system, as emails are not designed for working with files -- there are other colaboration systems out there which help you to share files efficient. But that thought aside, there is no problem with connection if you're sendind office documents, as they are kB and few MB in size -- lets say you have a word document with size of 1MB and your vesel is in some shady waters with a connection of only 64kbit/s, so for your email (lets say 64kB) with the attachment to send out it takes 2.22min... and that is without compression... so who in the world needs his business with faster document delivery?

For people who are connecting directly to a database, you have to know what is the size of transfered data -- more or less it probably is just few kB chunks of data if you're not working with databases as document storage.

You also have to consider security -- you probably would need a VPN connection that has some overhead over data transfered but uses its own compressions and there is also a compression of satelite link itself...

If you are considering the outage of the satelite link, I don't think, if you buy a global system, there will be any problems with it as this systems are designed to work 24/7.In case you're looking in high availability, you can always have another link for redundancy...

You will need to specify your business needs if you wish to have more detailed help, but in general I don't see any problem for most of businesses to work arround the world...
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Old 05-03-2015, 18:25   #55
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Re: Internet on Sailboat

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Originally Posted by buck0 View Post
you people sure make a lot of fuss about internet

1. get in touch with your admin and ask him what tipe of connection would be ok for your tipe of business.
2. buy it
3. work it
4. live it

if your business is build up for miliseconds, then there is no help in any mobile system out there as every mobile system produces a large latency and in satelite broadband this latency is 0.5-0.7s, compared to 0.15-0.20s over mobile phone.

I don't think that any business that is human driven needs such responsive connection. If you are in trading waters go and emulate the connection from your home seat and you'll see if you'll be ok with it, but I don't think that 0.5s will make such a problem for human interaction with the database... BTW if you're making so much money that you are thinking about stalite acces, then there is no problem to hire a local admin for two days to make a simulation

For anybody else who is thinking about working with satelite connection and uses his connection for emails with large attachments: If you're doing your business this way, it is alreaty a faulthy system, as emails are not designed for working with files -- there are other colaboration systems out there which help you to share files efficient. But that thought aside, there is no problem with connection if you're sendind office documents, as they are kB and few MB in size -- lets say you have a word document with size of 1MB and your vesel is in some shady waters with a connection of only 64kbit/s, so for your email (lets say 64kB) with the attachment to send out it takes 2.22min... and that is without compression... so who in the world needs his business with faster document delivery?

For people who are connecting directly to a database, you have to know what is the size of transfered data -- more or less it probably is just few kB chunks of data if you're not working with databases as document storage.

You also have to consider security -- you probably would need a VPN connection that has some overhead over data transfered but uses its own compressions and there is also a compression of satelite link itself...

If you are considering the outage of the satelite link, I don't think, if you buy a global system, there will be any problems with it as this systems are designed to work 24/7.In case you're looking in high availability, you can always have another link for redundancy...

You will need to specify your business needs if you wish to have more detailed help, but in general I don't see any problem for most of businesses to work arround the world...
Thanks for chiming in!

Many of my clients still work the old-fashioned way, attaching 20-30MB PowerPoint files to e-mails. It's not ideal, yet it works. Done this for years without a hitch, and many of my clients still require that option. Never bite the hand that feeds!
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Old 06-03-2015, 13:58   #56
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Re: Internet on Sailboat

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Originally Posted by PortClydeMe View Post
Thanks for chiming in!

Many of my clients still work the old-fashioned way, attaching 20-30MB PowerPoint files to e-mails. It's not ideal, yet it works. Done this for years without a hitch, and many of my clients still require that option. Never bite the hand that feeds!
the main problem with such large attachments is industry standard of 25MB per email. I had problems with clients who wanted to be able to send and receive emails with 150MB and more with their own servers, so I can understand people who are triing to transfer 15MB

Maybe there is a way to reroute your clients into using your service -- you can host a file server such a OwnCloud (DropBox alternative) or one of opensource colalboration suits, maybe you can even make some money hosting it for them

Where I can see the problem with satelite connection and such large files is satalite link quality -- I don't belive there is a problem with coverage, as you will probably not sail on poles, but there can be a problem with bad weather. You can calculate that in case of bad donwload link, lets say 64kbit/s, you'll be able to download 28,8MB of data per hour, so it will take you 1 hour to get the file on board and that can make some problems.

What I would suggest is to buy the biggest antenna you can get on boat, so you can produce the most sensibility for the signal and therefore get better and more stable connection, even if you don't need crazy bandwidth...
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Old 09-03-2015, 18:16   #57
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Re: Internet at Sea

buck,
Like you say, it's been 5 years....but, I don't remember quoting prices, but rather posting links to where you can find more info/prices, etc...

But, I looked at the vendor you mentioned groundcontrol.com and found the pricing to be on par with everyone else....and NOT what you wrote here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by buck0 View Post
i'm looking at groundcontrol.com and they have unlimited FleetBroadband for $3000/mo and 4GB/mo for $1800 -- did the prices really go so low in 5 years or did I miss something?
If you look at their site, you'll see all the details....

Maritime Satellite Internet for Ships, Boats, Yachts, Barges. FleetBroadband, Iridium, iDirect

FleetBroadband - High Speed Internet for Ships, Boats, Yachts, Barges & other Maritime craft

Fleet Broadband Coverage Map


Here are some highlights....

Quote:
Fleetbroadband is highly reliable for high-speed Internet & phone globally. Excellent for small and medium sized vessels.

GENERAL FEATURES:
Coverage Area - Global (except for poles)
Provider - Inmarsat
Internet Speeds - Up to 432 Kbps
Cost per Megabyte - $0.10 to $20.85
Cost per phone minute - $0.30 to $1.15
Equipment Cost - $4,700 to $16,914
Quote:
Iridium Pilot is 100% global using the Iridium satellite constellation. A trusted phone and Internet link from everywhere.

GENERAL FEATURES:
Coverage Area - 100% Global
Provider - Iridium
Internet Speeds - up to 134 Kbps
Cost per Megabyte - $0.49 to $14.38
Cost per phone minute - $0.33 to $0.99
Equipment Cost - $4,795

5 years later....and not much has changed...
Just as things have always been.....it's all about how much speed/bandwidth can you afford, as well as where you'll need this speed/bandwidth....
If you need worldwide coverage, and decent speeds (approx. double ISDN / 132-150kbs), you have Iridium Pilot or INMARSAT Fleet Broadband (FB150), if you require faster speeds, equipment and service costs more (FB250 or FB500)...

Understand these systems above (INMARSAT FB and Iridium Pilot) are L-band (1.5Ghz), and are VERY reliable....with no issues with "weather" / "rain fade", etc....



However, VSAT systems (except for the BIG dish / C-band, ~$100k) are Ku-band and Ka-band, and ARE subject to weather issues....many of these issues are severe...
But...
If you require faster speeds, it is very doable with VSAT terminals....
But, worldwide / across-ocean coverage is not available with small terminals (Ku-Band and/or Ka-band), so you'd need to use a BIG terminal (C-band, etc.) and it will COST YOU A LOT OF $$$$$!!!
So, those with VSAT terminals AND require coverage worldwide almost always have a FB500 system as well....

Yes, this DOES get expensive....but for those that "need" it, it IS available....

But, Buck you seem to have things well in hand...






Portclyde, you do realize that both of your comments to me here in this thread, you are responding to my answer to someone else, from 5 years ago???
Quote:
Originally Posted by PortClydeMe View Post
Why? Because the work nets $750K per year, on average. Why stop that income just to go cruising. Combining them = happy sailing days, indeed.
And, if you're averaging $750k/yr., then you should be hiring a consultant!!!
Or rather have your staff hire a consultant!!!

Although I'm semi-retired, I do this for a living (sat comm consulting, as well as other electronics / communications consulting), and if you're serious about this, here is some free, honest advice:
Hire a consultant...pay 'em a few thousand, and get a system designed for YOU and YOUR application...

If you're just tire kicking, no worries....have fun....but, if you're serious, you shouldn't be here in this forum looking for free advice...




Fair winds...

John
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Old 10-03-2015, 07:43   #58
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Re: Internet on Sailboat

A technical point I'm not sure that anyone has mentioned here is the latency issue on different satellite systems.

Depending on how fast you need to make trades, a couple thousand milliseconds could make or break you. This may or may not be applicable to your needs:

VSAT - Between 800-1000 milliseconds latency
FleetBroadband - Between 1200-1500 milliseconds latency
Pilot - When idle between 800-1000 milliseconds, but can rapidly go up to 10,000 or even 30,000 milliseconds depending on contention and usage on the network.

Latency is how much time between when you make a request and when data starts to come back to you.

Please note that Inmarsat has discontinued their All-You-Can-Eat plans for FleetBroadband. They have replaced these with plans up to 12GB with ferocious overage rates if you go over your monthly allotment.

If you need unlimited bandwidth you will need to go with a KU-band VSAT system (note: will only work well for you if you're going to be located in the northern hemisphere). Most if not all of the service plans for VSAT also have "fair use" policies with data caps in them, although they are typically much higher than 12GB.

I hope that helps. Good luck with everything.
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Old 11-03-2015, 13:29   #59
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Re: Internet on Sailboat

As a newbies but interested in internet access I have been watching this thread... I didn't think I had much to offer but I have just returned from the FP factory in France. I mentioned broadband to them and was told they has designed a good cheap system that would work in many situations. It was a slot of up to 16 sim cards that worked in parallel with each other. The idea was that you could fairly cheaply buy a local sim(s) and use them to give you broadband access (for example a PAYG sim in Thailand with 3G or 4G is only a couple of £ (or Thai Bhat actually)
You could also buy as many sims as you thought necessary (well up to 16 at least) meaning if the coverage was good you may only need 4 or 6.. It was a little more sketchy what offshore access was like but they thought it was a very cheap (to the user) solution.
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Old 11-03-2015, 14:00   #60
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Re: Internet on Sailboat

Everyone,
GMN (Global Marine Networks) is giving you all some good info here....not the "consumer sales pitch" that many give!!
So, do yourselves the favor and read his stuff....and thank him for the info....




Now while the title of this thread is "Internet on Sailboat", most of this discussion here (for most of the past 5 years) has been about "internet at sea / offshore", which is completely understandable as "internet on a sailboat in port and/or in near coastal waters" is pretty easy and cheap....
And, Heath this "in port, at anchor, and/or in near coastal waters", is what the folks at FP were referring to when discussing things with you!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath68 View Post
As a newbies but interested in internet access I have been watching this thread... I didn't think I had much to offer but I have just returned from the FP factory in France. I mentioned broadband to them and was told they has designed a good cheap system that would work in many situations. It was a slot of up to 16 sim cards that worked in parallel with each other. The idea was that you could fairly cheaply buy a local sim(s) and use them to give you broadband access (for example a PAYG sim in Thailand with 3G or 4G is only a couple of £ (or Thai Bhat actually)
You could also buy as many sims as you thought necessary (well up to 16 at least) meaning if the coverage was good you may only need 4 or 6..
This is a shore-based, terrestrial, line-of-sight, system....usable in port / at anchor, and in some areas in near coastal waters....
But this is NOT usable when offshore....and in this case "offshore" is determined by the shore-based 3g/4g infrastructure, which typically will limit this system to just a few miles....(with coastal Med / EU, typically a bit farther off the coast....but not much....remember the mobile/wireless companies direct their signals where most of the people are....so even with a great 3g/4g system on-board, you are at the mercy of the BIG wireless companies and their system designs...
As examples of this, just a few weeks ago here in Florida, my sister went to the beach to see a big Falcon 9 rocket launch...she has Verizon (which has great 3g/4g/LTE coverage all over the US....probably the best coverage of any wireless provider here..), and while she had 5 bars of signal in the parking lot on the beach, once she walked just 50 - 100 yards east / out onto the beach she had only one bar of signal and missed a call....and when walking farther down the beach (100 yards more) she lost all signal....my brother with AT&T had the same results last fall....my Sprint service (which is spotty in rural areas) does surprisingly well out to 1/2 mile - 1 mile off the coast....
And, a couple years ago (using Gibtel) in Gibraltar, I lost signal along the Spanish coast and thru The Straits....only a mile or two away....
Now, things are better in some coastal areas, but as wireless companies strive to maximize their profits from value-added services, it is the land-based users who get most of the signals....
Just wanted you to be aware....





As for systems for internet access when offshore and in remote locales....it is NOT cheap, NOT at all cheap!!! (see the info posted in this thread!!!
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It was a little more sketchy what offshore access was like but they thought it was a very cheap (to the user) solution.
I suspect the reason they were sketchy was twofold...
a) Most of their customers do not sail offshore....or at best not very often....
b) They want to sell you a boat!!! And, they are not about to jeopardize that with talk of expensive sat comm internet systems, etc....



Heath, as a newbie, please read over this thread....and you'll see what I (and others) mean.....




Fair winds...

John
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