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Old 21-07-2015, 02:29   #46
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Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Again, you're talking about reefing for a sustained increase in wind. The thread is about "a good quick system to dump the main".

Dump, not sheet in.

I wouldn't suggest anyone sheet their main in to depower it. Certainly not in following seas. You'd create a strong tendency to round up, and in biggish waves the rudder(s) may not be in the water enough of the time to resist it.
The basic idea of the thread is fast, safe depowering and direct downwind is a special case. What I suggest works well and leaves you options for increasing gusts.

Lets follow your method along... A strong gust hits and you dump the main and it wraps around the stays bending like crazy. A further stronger gust hits and you have nothing left to do, the force against the stays is keeping you from hauling the main down, the boat speed is increasing wildly as the bows press down, wave tripping is getting more likely.

I can see why you don't like to think about a scenario after dumping the main like that, it can get scary. Suggesting a method that limits your possibilities is a bit reckless at best. We all know it would be better to have the main down for these reasons when running in dangerous weather which is why I'm going to stick with my approach which helps set up that option if it becomes necessary. And laugh at the idea of not safely depowering because it isn't a dump.
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Old 21-07-2015, 11:01   #47
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Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

Hey guys ease the tension a little.

I think we can agree on the following:

Always reef early. Be not shy or lazy about this.

If wind is forward of abeam round up & reduce sail area.

If wind has some aft component, bear away.
Dump the main to reduce initial shock load.
Boat will accelerate.
Then carefully sheet in some to reduce pressure between rigging and sail.
Use a downhaul to crank the sail down.

There is no guarantee that it will work....

Btw. my question was geared towards the hardware setup and well answered in a number of posts.

Thanks again.

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Old 21-07-2015, 11:01   #48
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Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

Pressed send accidently.
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Old 21-07-2015, 11:29   #49
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Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

Just a thought -- that might or might not be helpful -- One of the ways to scandalize a sail is to use the topping lift to raise the boom end. If your topping lift, like ours, is on a winch on the boom at the mast base, you can crank away on it and raise the boom spilling air. Not elegant, but a useful tool.

Probably not too helpful if one has the main plastered against the shrouds--but not thinking one would ever get to that situation in big gusty winds unless one were racing. Also, unless you're racing and pushing your boat to the point of twitchy... (and this is CRUISERS forum...not racers forum) you likely won't be sailing DDW as you'll be running in big winds because you want to give yourself a tiny bit of gibe safety. If broad reaching or running, your headsails are going to provide lee helm, keep you steady and fast and your mainsail becomes more of a liability as the winds increase. So it may already be reefed or perhaps not even in use if it is gusty or very windy at all.

Fair winds,
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Old 21-07-2015, 13:13   #50
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Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

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Old 21-07-2015, 13:24   #51
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Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

One thing I've been thinking over is a quick release system for halyards and sheets, accessible from below as well as the cockpit. In a major calamity, would it be a good thing to be able to free those asap? I was thinking of a belaying pin kind of setup, so that one only has to pull out the pin to uncleat instantly. Something along those lines...
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Old 21-07-2015, 16:24   #52
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Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2 View Post
The basic idea of the thread is fast, safe depowering and direct downwind is a special case. What I suggest works well and leaves you options for increasing gusts.

Lets follow your method along... A strong gust hits and you dump the main and it wraps around the stays bending like crazy. A further stronger gust hits and you have nothing left to do, the force against the stays is keeping you from hauling the main down, the boat speed is increasing wildly as the bows press down, wave tripping is getting more likely.
Whatever. We can still get our main down or reef it when it's dumped like this. Maybe you can't? The "wildly increasing" boatspeed actually helps here, because it reduces the pressure on the sail.

I've actually tried doing what you say you do in decent following seas. It's dangerous. But if it works for you good luck with it.
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Old 21-07-2015, 23:32   #53
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Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Whatever. We can still get our main down or reef it when it's dumped like this. Maybe you can't? The "wildly increasing" boatspeed actually helps here, because it reduces the pressure on the sail.

I've actually tried doing what you say you do in decent following seas. It's dangerous. But if it works for you good luck with it.
Funnily enough using your method caused me to try other things after breaking a couple of battens. The center the main for reefing when downwind was a technique advocated by Gregor Tarjan. Much to my surprise it worked well. Dead downwind is a funny point of sail because the sails no longer work as aerofoils but drag devices like a parachute. Reducing the drag profile by centering is very effective, like spilling wind from a parachute. This is a multihull only thing though, it will broach a mono. A multihull should have some jib pulling forward to help keep things stable. If I need to bear off from a broad reach because of a gust I keep the main at that setting to reduce the downwind profile and save work if centering is called for.

So we both were willing to try different things in order to sort out our boats and we each think the others technique dangerous. Good luck with yours too.

Sorry for the fuss Fran, sometimes I use tension to reduce tension.
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Old 22-07-2015, 17:27   #54
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Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery View Post
Just a thought -- that might or might not be helpful -- One of the ways to scandalize a sail is to use the topping lift to raise the boom end. If your topping lift, like ours, is on a winch on the boom at the mast base, you can crank away on it and raise the boom spilling air. Not elegant, but a useful tool.

Probably not too helpful if one has the main plastered against the shrouds--but not thinking one would ever get to that situation in big gusty winds unless one were racing. Also, unless you're racing and pushing your boat to the point of twitchy... (and this is CRUISERS forum...not racers forum) you likely won't be sailing DDW as you'll be running in big winds because you want to give yourself a tiny bit of gibe safety. If broad reaching or running, your headsails are going to provide lee helm, keep you steady and fast and your mainsail becomes more of a liability as the winds increase. So it may already be reefed or perhaps not even in use if it is gusty or very windy at all.

Fair winds,
Like you say, it's cruising, so running DDW in big winds, the main is long gone. Then there's no real worries about gybe safety either.


I think this thread has drifted from handling sudden, short term gusts, to sustained strong winds.
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Old 22-07-2015, 19:53   #55
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Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Like you say, it's cruising, so running DDW in big winds, the main is long gone. Then there's no real worries about gybe safety either.


I think this thread has drifted from handling sudden, short term gusts, to sustained strong winds.
Threads tend to come up about things people are concerned about which are largely beyond their control (e.g. the sudden short gust?) and drift into things we can have the illusion of some control/knowledge (whatever you want to call it) for example longer term high winds and then we pontificate don't we?

Nice thing about short gusts is that they are *short*
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Old 28-07-2015, 21:46   #56
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Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

Friend of mine was caught in a sustained squall in a cat with too much main up.
He told me the only way to deal with it was to continue dead downwind with the main midships, tightly sheeted and he steered manually by the wind angle (180) till it passed.
He could not bring the main down at all, and could not risk letting the sheet out. The battens were "S" shaped. A scandalized main is the only option in a case like this. If you "dump" the mainsheet, surely the sail will be against the spreaders, sailing by the lee and cause a round-up??
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Old 28-07-2015, 22:05   #57
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Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

Has anyone considered the Tuff Luff system? https://www.tidesmarine.com/sailtrack. I've used it on several boats and will be using it on my own trimaran. You have to get out of the way when you release the halyard.
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Old 28-07-2015, 22:50   #58
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Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

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Friend of mine was caught in a sustained squall in a cat with too much main up.
He told me the only way to deal with it was to continue dead downwind with the main midships, tightly sheeted and he steered manually by the wind angle (180) till it passed.
He could not bring the main down at all, and could not risk letting the sheet out. The battens were "S" shaped. A scandalized main is the only option in a case like this. If you "dump" the mainsheet, surely the sail will be against the spreaders, sailing by the lee and cause a round-up??
Well our experience has been the opposite. Trying to sheet in caused the boat to want to round up. Letting the main out, right out so the battens reversed, depowered it.

If it turns out to be more than just a gust, I can reef from this position with little difficulty.
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Old 29-07-2015, 01:44   #59
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Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

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Has anyone considered the Tuff Luff system? https://www.tidesmarine.com/sailtrack. I've used it on several boats and will be using it on my own trimaran. You have to get out of the way when you release the halyard.
Thats a good looking system. Can you drop the mainsail when it is loaded or do you have a downhaul?
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Old 29-07-2015, 02:02   #60
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Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

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Has anyone considered the Tuff Luff system? https://www.tidesmarine.com/sailtrack. I've used it on several boats and will be using it on my own trimaran. You have to get out of the way when you release the halyard.
I used it and liked it on a smaller boat, but it isn't built for anything near our size main at 950sq ft. We have a harken track with ball bearing cars in our case. I'd carefully check the guidelines on their website with respect to sail area.

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