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Old 01-06-2008, 16:08   #1
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Dean cats ????

Hi all any views at all on any Dean cats finding it difficult to find information .
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Old 01-06-2008, 19:05   #2
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I met a couple last year that did research and preferred the Dean. Now, why are they only ones? Maybe they are smarter than the rest or us catamaran drivers, but . . .

There is usually a reason that the more popular boats are more popular.

I really think the Dean is OK and would not be reluctant to buy one if I was in the market and the boat was priced in line with its condition. Some of them have sloping decks which I REALLY DON'T LIKE.

George
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Old 02-06-2008, 07:52   #3
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I looked at a 400 about 18 months ago, didn't like the galley-down. I checked with my insurance broker to get some idea of the insurance premium and whether or not the Deans had any sort of 'insurance history'. The reply was if they were professionally built they were generally OK but some yards in SA are better than others, i.e. some yards have a lousy reputation. I'd suggest you find out which yard built the one you're looking at and check with the insurers. In general I thought they looked pretty bullet-proof, however now having sailed the BB/Prout rig a few hundred miles now I think the large main might be a bit of a handful for short-handed cruising.
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:33   #4
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Hi,
I've been following these fine cats for some time now. Last year I visited the Dean 441 at the La Rochelle in France where I spoke to Peter Dean.
It's made specific for cruisers ( not charter ) I've seen and I've been on many cats. What strikes me is the high quality of finish and the use of only the best proven materials. It's not a lightweight cat. The fully load displacement according to Dean Catamarans is 28660 lbs /13000 kg.
A total sail area ( main + jib ) of 1345 / 125 m2 should give a sufficient cruisingspeed. To use Peter Dean's words: " it's a 7 knots boat "
If you want additional info send me a PM.

Greetz,

Koen


Some pics I took at the boatshow :
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Old 02-06-2008, 16:10   #5
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I also had a look at them at La Rochelle, see enclosed cockpit photo.

Peter Dean is honest about the performance of his boats - which ca not be said of many other salesmen.

The emphasis seems to be in choosing the correct curtains and interior materials rather than sailing. But again it's "horses for courses".

Later I was in Cape Town, and had a look at a Dean motor catamaran. It all looked good, until I spoke to the crew, and they showed me around the parts of the boat one doesn't normally see as a passenger.

The build quality was apalling, the layup was sloppy, the mat didn't even join up in some areas, way too much resin, air pockets etc. Extensive use of plywood that was not properly sealed in the structure, no scarfing...

The crew were not impressed.

This might not be normal, but I would be very careful before considering investing in a boat from Dean.

Regards

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Old 03-06-2008, 01:47   #6
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these are harsh statements.
I honestly can't imagine that this is a correct description of what Dean Catamarans is all about.
One should use his words more carefully.
They may be harmful or inaccurate.
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Old 03-06-2008, 04:13   #7
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That was what I saw, I have no axe to grind with anyone. I am not in any way part of the industry. My earlier impression of Dean cats were on a neutral to slightly positive level, so it was a suprise for me to actually see this.

Please reread my last statement.

I think that we should speak openly in these forums, I personally am not interested in getting incorrect or enhanced answers to questions about boats, equipment or services, I prefer the hard facts, even though they sometimes force me to reevaluate my views. There is plenty of glib marketing to counter the sometimes negative statements.

Boats from the same yard will also vary in build quality and finish, there aren't many yards that actually work to certified and enforced quality standards, and are audited by an outside body. Even the ones that do have this, have variations in quality.


Alan
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Old 03-06-2008, 05:33   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreast View Post
Hi all any views at all on any Dean cats finding it difficult to find information .
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarab View Post
these are harsh statements...
Steve (redbreast) is getting the requested differing views on the Dean cats.
It seems that Koen (scarab) liked the Dean(s) he saw a little more than did Alan (Nordic cat) the ones he saw.

Would it be too harsh an opinion, if I described a used railway tie as the very worst possible pillow, full of splinters, hard, heavy & large, and stinky beyond belief? Or would it be merely an honest opinion, expressed in no uncertain terms, and possibly accurate?
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:12   #9
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It could be interpreted as being harsh if you would add to the fact that one railway tie is full of splinters and stinky that people should stop taking the train.
I just had a problem with Alan's conclusion.

Koen
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:30   #10
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Hi Koen,

My conclusion was:

Quote:
This might not be normal, but I would be very careful before considering investing in a boat from Dean.
Unquote.

I think that this statement attempts to create a semblance of balance while erring towards caution.

These boats are at the lower end of the price scale, heavy, with high windage. My impression is that they don't keep their resale values as well as e.g. a Catana, but I haven't crunched the numbers to prove this.

At the end of the day all such statements are subjective to some degree, I'm sorry if this has bothered you.

Regards

Alan
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:31   #11
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The fully load displacement according to Dean Catamarans is 28660 lbs /13000 kg.To use Peter Dean's words: " it's a 7 knots boat "
I am not suprised, if you are looking toward that sort of displacement, I suspect a good quality mono around 50 foot would be cheaper, have as much amenity and perform just as well, 13 tonne is way to much for a 44 foot multi.

I point out I have not sailed a dean and am simply analysing the data provided.
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Old 03-06-2008, 09:12   #12
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I've been on "Blue Bayou" a well-found new 441 and was quite impressed with most of the features. It was still undergoing sea trials and had a couple of minor issues that were all being addressed and I found the fiberglass layup and build quality to be very good. But, since I'm a dyed-in-the-wool monohuller and wouldn't think of going over to the dark side, I searched long and hard to find negative points.
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Old 03-06-2008, 12:57   #13
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I was also at La Rochelle last year and spent quite a bit of time with Peter Dean. A very nice honest sort of guy.
The 441 there was finished superbly, one thing that did really stand out was the quality of wiring, well laid out and great for easy maintenance. The interior was re-designed for my preferences there and then on a laptop, and the choice of wood finishes was unbelievable.
As was said earlier Peter descibes the boat as a 7 or 8 knot boat so I presume from that unless the wind is perfect and the sea like glass you shouldn't expect much more.
My dislikes were the quite narrow sloping side decks, the large step from the cockpit down into the saloon, the very small tramps and when in the saloon a lack of room to pass anyone. My main concern though was that during the show there were around 12 people on board at one time and I happened to notice that the bottom transom step was underwater. The show boat in question had no generator or air con and the rest of the toys the admiral demands. When heavily laden I think the performance would be effected even more with the increased wetted area.
Just my 2 cents worth.
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Old 04-06-2008, 03:29   #14
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Today I got a email from Peter Dean (Managing Director ) : ...Nothing much has changed really on the 441. As we do a lot of custom work no two Deans are the same and have built some interesting layouts this year. Built some nice “owners versions” and have built a new “hardtop” for the Bimini as this is what most people want now.
At the moment the boats are getting lighter and the quality is getting better and better. I went to the forum and had a look what some people say about the 441. Mostly true but can see most people are so uninformed. Every vessel is a compromise and no designer can say “I have built the perfect boat” as it is impossible. We build safe and very strong boats for people/families who want to do serious offshore cruising/live aboard purposes. Yes our vessels are slightly heavy, but the weight I give is accurate to 0.5kg and is the total weight of the boat when launched……not a weight given to “attract buyers”.

A testimonial from Jeff Voorhees ( owner from Miami,USA ) :
..I left South Africa at the wrong time of year and caught a huge front with 50kt winds and 50-60 foot waves. I managed to beat the worlds record for the fastest Dean cat by surfing a 60 foot wave. My max sog was 27.8 knots. I got soaked to the bone and was ready to quit but I felt that the boat could take a lot more.

Regards,

Koen
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Old 04-06-2008, 06:11   #15
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from the outside its a bit ordinary in the looks department
sean
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