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Old 08-05-2015, 17:51   #1
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Advise on anchoring set up.

I searched but I can't find so I am seeking opinions (or where to search on this site). I have a 10M cat that needs a windlass, 2 rollers and pins and possibly everything so before I start spending money I figured I would ask the pros.
1 What is the best anchoring technique for multihulls including mild and rough seas in particular two anchor set ups. Are they even needed? How do you set this up for this cat?
2 What would you recommend for rollers (Is their really a difference in price/quality?), chain and rode size and length for cruising in the Caribbean?
3 What is an adequate method for attaching anchor to chain, chain to rode?

I currently have a 35 lb plow with about 45' of usable 3/8" chain, 100' of nylon 3 twist and 3 danforth style, with 100' rode only for one of them. My cat has all kinds of room in the anchor locker so a horizontal windlass would be fine. I would not have a problem saving the money on a manual unless it is true they are not a good way to go.

I am really skeptical and tired of spending money on bad advise from the know it all's on my refit who seem to want to justify their mistakes by making me make the same ones.
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Old 08-05-2015, 18:59   #2
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Re: Advise on anchoring set up.

It's advice, not advise.

You have an anchor and bridle, the bridle being attached to points right and left of center. Shackle all your parts together. Get as much chain as you want, then a bunch of rode.
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Old 08-05-2015, 20:06   #3
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Re: Advise on anchoring set up.

Wireman - I think the 35 # plow is Ok for mild seas, the 3/8" is oversize for the 35 plow and you want the largest shackle ( suggest a Crosby) you can fit into the anchor shank to connect to your chain. You don't say the size of the 3 strand nylon. 45 ft is OK as long as you are very careful to keep away from coral. We cruised the Bahamas with a 35 Delta plow, about 25 ft of 5/16 chain and 150' of well used 1/2" 3 strand probably was only about 7/16" then) on our former 34' Prout but we choose shallow sheltered locations. we used another shackle between the chain and the 3 strand but there are several splices you can do: Chain Splice | How to Splice Rope to Chain | Splicing Knots I also carried 150 ft of chain which we used only a couple times for fronts coming thru but with no windlass, the 3 strand is much easier to pull up. We always used a bridle about 25 ft per leg and carried 2 mid sized Danforth style but never used them. Make sure the bridle anchor points are robust. Most of the time, pulling up by hand was just fine, just a couple times we wished for a windlass. Powered ones are cheap now, would not bother with a manual. Just the proper size wire will be costly.

Now we have a 55 lb Rocna on the same 150ft of chain since the new boat has a windlass. Backup is a Fortress FX-23 on 165 ft of 3/4" 8 plait. Lots of people will tell you that mised rode is foolish and to only use all chain and some will suggest that 3/8" is min but it gets mighty heavy quickly and weight up front on a cat is not what you want.
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Old 09-05-2015, 07:03   #4
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Re: Advise on anchoring set up.

Apologies on the spelling. My interest in learning Spanish is messing with my English. Thanks for the replies. The answers I get at the bar is proving time and time again to be garbage.
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Old 09-05-2015, 07:52   #5
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Re: Advise on anchoring set up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainwireman View Post
I searched but I can't find so I am seeking opinions (or where to search on this site). I have a 10M cat that needs a windlass, 2 rollers and pins and possibly everything so before I start spending money I figured I would ask the pros.

1 What is the best anchoring technique for multihulls including mild and rough seas in particular two anchor set ups. Are they even needed? How do you set this up for this cat?

2 What would you recommend for rollers (Is their really a difference in price/quality?), chain and rode size and length for cruising in the Caribbean?

3 What is an adequate method for attaching anchor to chain, chain to rode?



I currently have a 35 lb plow with about 45' of usable 3/8" chain, 100' of nylon 3 twist and 3 danforth style, with 100' rode only for one of them. My cat has all kinds of room in the anchor locker so a horizontal windlass would be fine. I would not have a problem saving the money on a manual unless it is true they are not a good way to go.



I am really skeptical and tired of spending money on bad advise from the know it all's on my refit who seem to want to justify their mistakes by making me make the same ones.

We have never needed 2 anchors in tandem, but we do have a fortress fx23 we use as a stern anchor occasionally. It's mounted on the stern rail with 30m of weighted line. It's also a good emergency brake if ever needed, ready to deploy in 10'seconds. It's a great anchor for sand.
The best setup is with a bridle for the main anchor. You can use mooring lines tied to the chain and foreword cleats or have a permanent fixed bridle. Attach to the chain with a shackle, knot or anchor hook. Our anchor situated on the forward beam, but some situate under the main crossbeam, such as Fountaine puegot cats. This has the benefit of keeping the weight central, but may not work on your cat. We have two rollers on the foreword beam but have on,y used the primary one. I think any roller would be fine as it doesn't need to take much leverage weight sitting on the beam.
In the Caribbean we have never needed to anchor in more than 10m of water, so 50m of chain would be enough. We have 70 + 20 nylon rhode.
I'd suggest trying to fit a chain stopper as well. We use a line to a cleat with a shackle, but a dedicated stopper in line would be good. Of the plough is a delta type, around 20kg should be more than enough for a 10m cat under 5T. We use a 25Kg kobra on a 40' 10T cat
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Old 09-05-2015, 09:00   #6
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Re: Advise on anchoring set up.

We have a 37' Prout Snowgoose and what we have has worked quite well:

Primary anchor on bow roller in center of bow:
- 35lb CQR with 80' of 5/16" chain and 200' 9/16" Rode
- you could go with less chain for less weight at the bow, I wouldn't go below 50'

Secondary anchor on stern
- 35lb Manson Supreme
- The 35lb Manson is overkill for this (at time it is nearly impossible to get up) and we are planning on changing our bow roller so we can put the Mason on the bow.

Fortress FX-16 in a locker, never used...

Our Bridle is 5/8” with thimble in Center, each arm is 29' in length with markings at 10' & 20'. Rarely do we use the full bridle unless we are putting the boat at an angle to the wind so deal with off angle surge. When doing this somtimes on leg of the bridle is at the bow and the other at the stern.
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Old 09-05-2015, 09:16   #7
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Re: Advise on anchoring set up.

I have a 10kg bruce on the bow, and another 10kg bruce stowed below. The one below I named Jesus.

When the wind picks up at an anchorage, I put my faith in Jesus (set at 60 degrees from my other anchor, "Satan"). I can't trust Satan. Satan keeps me up all night, watching, worrying. Jesus holds me when the winds blow. Jesus gets me through the storms.

However, after much reading, study, and thought...I would trade both Jesus and Satan for one big Rocna.

I know this is slightly off topic, and pretty blasphemous, so forgive me, I'm really drunk.
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Old 09-05-2015, 09:26   #8
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Re: Advise on anchoring set up.

I'm curious as to how you attach the bridle thimble to the anchor chain/rode? Do you shackle it to the chain? In a real blow in deeper water, how would you attach the bridle to the rode, that is, the extended rode puts the chain well beyond the length of your bridle. Do you use a different bridle and hitches to attach it to the rode?


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Old 09-05-2015, 10:09   #9
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Re: Advise on anchoring set up.

Good question trio, and one of the reasons against a fixed bridle and for an adjustable bridle as mentioned above. Attaching the bridle to the chain, we have used chain hooks or shackles, all have worked ok. The wichard tends to bend the securing pin though
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Old 09-05-2015, 10:41   #10
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Re: Advise on anchoring set up.

We used to have a 16kg Delta, which is about 36lbs in American, on our 12m/40ft mono, which was fine for up to 25-30kts, never dragged up to this point. However we dragged badly when an unexpected wind picked up one night to 45kts and I never slept well on the hook after that. Paranoia is not a good sleep aid!!

So after several months of investigations we took the plunge and upgraded to a 33kg/73lb Rocna Vulcan along with 60mm of G70 8mm chain spliced to 45m of 16mm anchorplait. Excessive some might say but if the figures are correct this should hold us safe in a hurricane and allows us to drop anchor in up to 20m of water (at 5:1). I don't intend to anchor in a hurricane but I want to know my home is safe in the 45kts we got hit with previously.

My gut instinct for a similar sized cat is the same weight anchor given the greater windage with as much G70 8mm/16mm anchorplait as you can fit in the locker. As catamaran lockers are generally set back further that monos there shouldn't be a problem with weight being too far forward. Many cats I've seen the locker is almost on the central point of the vessel.

We have since relegated our Delta to secondary anchor, just because we already have it and it will hold in up to 30kts. However I did consider a Fortress FX37 for secondary duties based on the fact it breaks down for easier storage and being aluminium is lighter to handle than the 16kg lump of the Delta.

You want to use a good size nylon bridle to act as a snubber as well to reduce the shock loading on the chain and windlass. We have a "Shockels" on our snubber to really reduce the shock loads but you could use clip on shock absorbers.

Decide first where you are thinking of cruising and what's the worst conditions you might end up anchoring in. Ignore the manufacturers claims for the most part (although Mantus and Rocna are both reliable) and go for the biggest lump of metal you can afford. Far better to have a good night sleep with an oversized anchor than a terrible night with a cheap one.

Keiron
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Old 09-05-2015, 11:11   #11
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Re: Advise on anchoring set up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainwireman View Post
I searched but I can't find so I am seeking opinions (or where to search on this site). I have a 10M cat that needs a windlass, 2 rollers and pins and possibly everything so before I start spending money I figured I would ask the pros.
1 What is the best anchoring technique for multihulls including mild and rough seas in particular two anchor set ups. Are they even needed? How do you set this up for this cat?
2 What would you recommend for rollers (Is their really a difference in price/quality?), chain and rode size and length for cruising in the Caribbean?
3 What is an adequate method for attaching anchor to chain, chain to rode?

I currently have a 35 lb plow with about 45' of usable 3/8" chain, 100' of nylon 3 twist and 3 danforth style, with 100' rode only for one of them. My cat has all kinds of room in the anchor locker so a horizontal windlass would be fine. I would not have a problem saving the money on a manual unless it is true they are not a good way to go.

I am really skeptical and tired of spending money on bad advise from the know it all's on my refit who seem to want to justify their mistakes by making me make the same ones.
Having lost a couple of anchors and retrieving many from dives due to cordage rodes I go with all chain and only use cord for snubbing. You will too in time when you almost lose your boat.
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Old 09-05-2015, 16:58   #12
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Re: Advise on anchoring set up.

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Originally Posted by svtrio View Post
I'm curious as to how you attach the bridle thimble to the anchor chain/rode? Do you shackle it to the chain? In a real blow in deeper water, how would you attach the bridle to the rode, that is, the extended rode puts the chain well beyond the length of your bridle. Do you use a different bridle and hitches to attach it to the rode?
Good question (one we had too!).

What we do is when we are on chain only (<80') we use a chain hook which is shacked to the bridle.

When we are in deeper water and are on chain and rode we take a bight of rode and thread it through the thimble in the middle of the bridle and pass a wooden dowel through the bight and tighten the bight up. Then to be sure it doesn't slide out (as it's not wider on the ends) we have a line which loops through two holes at either end of the dowel to stop it from sliding out.
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Old 13-05-2015, 15:19   #13
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Re: Advise on anchoring set up.

One more thought, to keep the weight down.How about a short chain of let's say 10m-15m + a 15m long piece of oversize dynema followed by nylon rode?

Dynema is very chafe resistant.Would it be strong enough in coral areas? Coral specialists,looking forward to your comments.

Nylon is more stretchy and will cushion shock loads off to some degree.
Possibly add a riding weight in rough weather.

Oh yes and a bridle is a must. Avoid knots, shackles and splices weaken the ropes less.

One more point, if you set the bridle on one side slightly shorter up, your boat will likely sail less when at anchor.

Just some thoughts....

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Old 13-05-2015, 15:35   #14
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Re: Advise on anchoring set up.

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Originally Posted by Franziska View Post
One more thought, to keep the weight down.How about a short chain of let's say 10m-15m + a 15m long piece of oversize dynema followed by nylon rode?

I hear dynema is very chafe resistant.Would it be strong enough in coral areas?

Nylon is more stretchy. Possibly add a riding weight in rough weather.

Just some thoughts....

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I say again and cannot emphasize enough, in coral stay away from cord rode. Retrieved 4 rusty anchors with cord attached in one location in one afternoon. I carry 400ft of 3/8in HT Chain for 45# CQR and 65# Bruce, and 150ft cord for Fortress F37 when stern to the beach.
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Old 13-05-2015, 15:44   #15
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Re: Advise on anchoring set up.

Fair enough, but Dynema or Kevlar are not just simple "cord" are they?
Surely would not dare all Nylon or the like...

I am just curious how these high tech materials stand up.
Of course all chain is nice, but also very heavy and expensive.
Especially if one does not have a windlass...

Still nothing is as expensive as a lost boat...
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