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cwjohm · 29-05-2013, 03:30

Wow

What the boss said word for word about the Helia.

The interesting part though is that you mention nothing about its ability to sail.

Unfortunately this is a pretty important issue for me

aclmck · 29-05-2013, 04:01

Hi Chris,

The few owners including Gordon on Hull #12 say that the Helia performs Ok it is really only a cruiser not a race boat so i expect it to be a poor performer against some that you have looked at and sort of hold its own on others.

Gordon stated it sailed same or better than the Orana He has owned both so should Know Send him a PM and ask i'm sure he will answer you.

leont · 31-05-2013, 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catastroff

...the first boat is never ideal, you will have to sail many miles to really know what a boat is like, and mot important, knows what is good for you and what is not...it takes time.

..., just visit how many boats you can, and you will see that one day your heart will stop beating, and you fall in love with one boat, and you will buy it...balsa core or not, old or new...your mind will get stuck with her, like a woman, you will be in love with and accept all of her pros and cons !

catastroff

Excellent observation; it should work for a sufficiently educated buyer. Please look at CATANA as a good compromise between performance and comfort.

D&D · 31-05-2013, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Factor

Just for accuracy, there are no 44 foot FPs. The Helia is 43 foot, similarly the Lipari 41 is 39 foot and as an aside the leopard 44 is 42 foot. Not a big deal, but its nice to be accurate. The seawind 1250 is actually 12.47 and the 1160 is 11.61 and the 1000XL2 is actually 10.85

Spot on Andrew.

We thought the FP promoted sizes were a bit odd too. FP make nice boats so not at all sure why they feel the need to 'pad' the numbers?

We should also add that the Lagoon 440 is 44' 8"...and we would rate our L440 as good in every category (perhaps even better in heavy weather safety and carrying capacity) in Dreaming Yachtsman's assessment of the FP Belize.

DotDun · 31-05-2013, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by D&D

Spot on Andrew.

We thought the FP promoted sizes were a bit odd too. FP make nice boats so not at all sure why they feel the need to 'pad' the numbers?

I don't understand this argument. Most are capable of finding a boat specs.

BTW, the Lagoon 400 is only 39' 3", the Lagoon 39 is only 38' 6", the 421 is 41' 4", the Leopard 39 is 37' 6".

I'm missing the point?

ausaviator · 31-05-2013, 19:37

DotDun, there is no point so you are not missing it... Lets just say that some manufacturers might quote the exact vessel length but then use small pillows to make the berths look big. Others over quote on sizes but nobody cares because the price and accommodation is large, fits their needs and comes at a great price. Whatever gets sales or floats your boat it would seem....

aclmck · 31-05-2013, 19:55

Come on, if you've been looking at boats (especially French and South African) for any time and you didn't know the Model number only roughly indicates the size you must be kidding!!!

Actual Sizes VS Model descriptions Vary widely some by up to 3 feet , but when you deal with some of the manufacturers don't assume anything ASK them how they measure They all differ wildly, in most of the measurments we all want to know. So lagoon may give mast height from the waterline to top of mast but it will exclude antenna etc waterline lengths vs actual length are all over the place so take a tape and check while doing the inspections .Volume of tanks is another one that is vastly different in that some give measurements of the actual tank volume(tank materials includes) Vs the actual amount it will hold.

I think they use wild figures to cover up a price point difference between them and the opposition in some cases to get you comparing boats of larger or smaller sizes depending on the point of view.

I Know it is not what we would all like but its the way they do it.

What would be nice is if All boat manufacturers were made to measure everything the same way. and give us all measurements like the actual o'all of a boat with and with out a bowsprit, these sort of things are hard to find on the info they give out.

D&D · 31-05-2013, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by aclmck

I think they use wild figures to cover up a price point difference between them and the opposition in some cases to get you comparing boats of larger or smaller sizes depending on the point of view.

I Know it is not what we would all like but its the way they do it.

What would be nice is if All boat manufacturers were made to measure everything the same way. and give us all measurements like the actual o'all of a boat with and with out a bowsprit, these sort of things are hard to find on the info they give out.

Well said

tuskie · 01-06-2013, 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by aclmck

I Know it is not what we would all like but its the way they do it.

What would be nice is if All boat manufacturers were made to measure everything the same way. and give us all measurements like the actual o'all of a boat with and with out a bowsprit, these sort of things are hard to find on the info they give out.

Ain't that the truth! Most manufacturer's spec sheets are fairly accurate when it comes to dimensions. Fuel and water capacities vs "available volume" is indeed another matter. The "model" name eg. "Lipari 41" is just something that was probably dreamed up by the marketing department. It could just as easily be a "Lipari 63". Why not just call it a "Lipari"?

It's a bloke thing this size exaggeration. Some nationalities obviously may need to exaggerate more!

Factor · 01-06-2013, 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by aclmck

What would be nice is if All boat manufacturers were made to measure everything the same way. and give us all measurements like the actual o'all of a boat with and with out a bowsprit, these sort of things are hard to find on the info they give out.

There are definitions of the various measurements in the legislation in your and my part of the world, (Transport Operations Marine Safety Act as well as the National Standards for Commercial Vessels)

aclmck · 01-06-2013, 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Factor

There are definitions of the various measurements in the legislation in your and my part of the world, (Transport Operations Marine Safety Act as well as the National Standards for Commercial Vessels)

i know they exist Andrew but never enforced on leisure boats, even the ones you sell lack a lot of info that people want to make a decision, mostly i find the "lacking information" is deliberately withheld to cover up the particular problems or inadequacies by certain manufacturers Look at the Bridgedeck clearance for example if its small its not printed if it is high its plastered everywhere, i'm sure you get the picture.

If ALL the required information were to be stated it would make your job easier by not having to answer questions thus giving you more time to actually sell a boat.

Allan

Fresh Salt · 25-08-2013, 05:29

Having now gotten out of the armchair and onto a couple of vessels, I'd like to to give a big thank you to everyone who contributed positively to this thread.

Just as judging vessels from the comfort of an armchair is mostly counter productive, so is judging a vessel while you are on it without a reasonable idea of what you should be looking for.

After spending 10 days at sea solo handling a +- 40ft (which shall remain unnamed as it was the first one out of the factory) I now have a crystal clear picture of what I don't want. A lot of which could have easily gone unnoticed were it not for issues brought to light in this and other threads, with a good deal of assistance from the failures experienced underway.

More recently I was fortunate enough to get a tour of the Matrix factory and get a look at some vessels being built and was very impressed by the obvious attention to detail and quality.

As luck would have it, shortly afterwards I found a Matrix 450 in excellent condition, fully appointed for extended cruising. The vessel satisfies 98% of my concerns the last 2% being purely cosmetic (that being from a build and walk through perspective).

It is now under offer and I'm waiting to have it hauled and surveyed, and then run sea trials. (where after I have the option to withdraw from the deal).

If the polar diagram is at all accurate and failing any major issues discovered in survey, I'd say I've found my boat. Until such time I'll refrain from further singing its graces.

So again a big thank you to all for your advice and patience.

Regards,

Dave