World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

[Nellos]

Yep, title says it all.
I'm still dreaming... but I've started planning! I've been asking around a lot about boats and I'm starting to zeroing in more and more around what I'm looking for and what's reasonable.

I'd greatly appreciate any tips experienced recommendations about boats under 180 000 USD suitable for a long world circumnavigation.

As I've searched on yachtworld until my fingers started to bleed I've learned the following:

• NO CHARTER
• no wood
• no steel
• Few people, but big; meaning I don't want to rent cabins for crew. This is for me and my girl and our dogs. So a handful of toilets and a bunch of cabins is useless. Sure we'll have visitors but I won't chose the boat based on the odd visit. 4-6 cabins and 4-6 toilets is just a waste of space for us.

Honestly, the perfect boat for us would be 50+ feet long, 1 master bedroom, 1 double bed cabin, 1 toilet, (pretty fast boat if possible but not important) - that's it. (and fit for long voyages obviously)

So in my searches I've found the following pattern but please let me know what you think about it;

I think it feels like that for about 80k USD - 120k USD can get 50 feet if you are not too picky.
The cheapest appears to be the boats
Bavaria 50 e.g. However heard that they are a low budget and poor quality. True?

Beneteau Oceanis 500. Too many cabins and 4 (!) Toilets.

Beneteau Cyclades. Apparently built mainly for charter so exactly the opposite of what I'm after.

Beneteau First seems more in my direction. But can't find that many out for sale .
Here is an example. Only three cabins and two toilets but still 53 feet: 1992 Beneteau First 53 F5 Segel Båtar till salu - se.yachtworld.com
On Beneteaus website, they no longer list the 53fot-size, only much smaller. Should I be worried about it?

Macgregor 65 - large and fast boat, right? But is it good? There is no other such long boat around 120k USD so I become suspicious ...

See a lot of Jeanneau Sun Odyssey and Dufour - what about them?

See also some Atlantic 50ish but rarely or never (!) Pictures of and inside the boat. That makes me suspicious. Experiences?

The next level is at 155k USD when it starts to open up a bit more interesting models that match my search but also other brands I do not know starts to pop up such as Elan, Wauquiez, Malcolm, Hako, Andrews, Bruce Roberts, Bay Class, Amel, Passport, Colvic, Tayana, Hanse, etc.
Any of them good?

Then it just gets more and more exciting the closer to 350k USD I get but I'm not there yet

But the budget's not set in stone. If everyone here would answer this to my perfect boat costs 215k USD so I guess I'll save some more ...

Pure comfort wise I'm actually very interested catamaran sail boats. They seem unbeatable. Gladly accept tips of those as well.
However, no trimaran racer thanks.

[avb3]

The question your asking is like asking how long a piece of string is, and the answers will be all over the board.

First of all, what is your sailing experience. What is your spouses? You are talking oceans, and much of what you outlined are not necessarily suited for that. Can they do it? Probably, but not necessarily the ideal.

Secondly, it sounds like you seem more concerned about interior appointments as opposed to sailing criteria. What keel depth are you considering? What works well in Scandinavia, the Baltic and North Seas will not work well at all in many coastal areas off Florida, the Gulf and in some of the Caribbean.

Are you looking for a cutter, ketch or jib/mainsail setup? Why have you considered that? What about water/fuel capacity? Water maker and generator? Solar panels? What will your electrical needs be?

There is much on the forum that discuss these issues. Take a look at some of the discussions, as there is much expertise among our 144,000 some members, in many areas, and many give of their expertise generously and frequently.

Cats versus keelboats is a discussion that will never end. Something like anchors.

Welcome aboard, and start picking apart one issue at a time. It will give you a much better idea of what you really want. Visit some boat shows... the big ones in the US are Annapolis in the fall and Miami in the spring, although there are others. It will give you some more ideas, probably a ton of questions also though.

A well founded older boat in many cases is a better choice than a newer one, due to the construction methods that are used. Again, we have had some significant threads on those issues here, and there are champions of both sides of the issue. Reading them, or asking questions, will help you determine what is important for you.

Interior appointments are only one part of the whole equation.

[Mike R]

Do you realize how big a boat 50 ft is?
What is your actual exp level! Perhaps a 49-45' would be a better choice?


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[Mike R]

Sorry , 40-45'


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[Hobie_ind]

I get the impression you don't have a lot of offhsore experience? I'd recommend starting with an offshore course with someone like this:

Mahina Expeditions conducts sailing and navigation training and expeditions in the South Pacific and offers offshore sailing seminars

John will also help people narrow down what they're looking for in a boat for a pretty reasonable fee. I used him, and helped narrow my search quite a bit.

IMO your budget would actually put you in some pretty bulletproof 38-46' boats that would be great for a couple. Stretching that budget to a 50+' boat puts you into far older and possibly less capable or poorly maintained boats.

Just my opinion.....YMMV

[carstenb]

You'll get a lot of answers to this question. Some sear by long keeled heavy cruisers, some by the modern, lighter boats. You need to take a good hard look at your (and your wife's) sailing qualifications before you buy a boat. water sailing">Blue water sailing is a skill that takes time to master.

Re: your dogs - there are a number of threads on this furom devoted to cruising with dogs. It is difficult. Many countries won't allow them in without extensive quarantine. Lots of paperwork.
Many dogs simply do not like to be on boats. Many dogs have big problems with "doing their business" on a boat. They don't like it and are miserable.

I have friends who have a 54 foot Jeanneau Sun Odyssey, owners version with 2 cabins and 2 toilets. Great boat and they have sailed it extensively blue water. It's a good boat but to get one in reasonable shape you're probably around the 300K mark.

As Andy noted - start reading the threads and go visit boat shows. Charter a boat or two, you'll get a better picture of what your needs are and what you don't need

[Hobie_ind]

I completely missed the '2 dogs'!

As said above, there's lots of threads about dogs and cruising.....we have met exactly..... 'zero' .......long term cruisers in the South Pacific with dogs. They may be out there and it may be theoretically possible, but I think it would seriously impact your cruising plans with 2 dogs aboard here.

The Caribbean and Central America had lots of cruisers with dogs, but in talking to them, they picked and choosed their 'battles' and I think missed out on a lot of great places. The bureaucracy and never ending vet certificates and agriculture/quarantine inspections/certificates/pre-approvals,etc, etc, etc, that I watched our friends go through would have worn me down quickly,

We LOVED our dog, but found a great home with close friends before we left. I honestly think it was better for him and us in the end. Don't get me wrong....we've moved all over the world before cruising and taken a dog with us (including Australia)....but the planning, paperwork, cost and quarantine requirements in a lot of places would be very, very restrictive (and expensive) to a cruising lifestyle. For example in 1996 I think taking our dog to Australia ended up costing in excess of $3000 and over 6 months of planning.

As above, good luck, just my opinion, YMMV.

[Nellos]

Thanks, great input already!

Yes I, gf and dogs have no experience yet. We'll spend winter to get our ICC Sail certificate (Kustskepparexamen in Swedish). Also plenty of time to keep reading up on this forum. I look forward to all of it!
Then practical sailing courses in the spring and summer. We might be ready next fall or the summer after. So Late 2016 or 2017.

Yes it's true I've focused more on the interior so far. But I'm not oblivious to the other aspects and I'll get to them.

Dogs... that will be very interesting to read about here. Glad to hear there are threads about it. I know a guy who spent 12 years on the world's seas. A lot of it in the Caribbean. They found a stray dog which they adopted and he spent 4 years on the boats with him. That went splendid, he says. But as you say, the dogs might not even like it. We'll have to try small next summer and see how it goes.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Nellos.

[carstenb]

To give you an idea aobut dogs - your own country, up until 2 years ago did not allow foreign dogs to come into sweden unless they had a vet's certificate showing that they had all their shots and been dewormed within the past 3 weeks (some passages are 3-4 weeks - what will you do if other coutnries have a similar rule?).

And you better believe the Swedish Coast Guard enforced this rule vigously. Get caught and fine was 3000kr and the dog in quarantine for 3 months (at your expense)

Also - since you apparently have no real sailing qualifications or experience, I'd say that thinking you're going off in 2016 or 2017 is, extremely optimistic shall we say? An ICC and a summer of sailing in the swedish archipelago is not going to prepare you for riding out a gale (or worse) somewhere.

I've sailed the Baltic for the past 12 years, including in winter and a gale here can get pretty exciting. NOw go out into the north sea or the english channel and the waves will run up to 6-8 meters in a gale/storm (I've been there)

Getting a boat ready for extended cruising and passagemaking takes most people 2-3 years and that even if they don't have economic issues (meaning they've got money enough)

All of the above is not to discourage you - but if you want to do this safely, both you and your wife are going to need a lot of practical experience. She (and you) need to be able to single-hand whatever boat you get. And by single-hand I mean truly single-hand. When you're sailing long distances with only 2 people - you'll be singlehanding the boat every time you have watch.

a 50+ foot boat is huge. Has your wife got the upper body strength to manhandle the lines? Fine to say "I've got electric winches" but guess what - docking lines for a boat that size are going to be 25-30mm. Tell your wife to please carry and coil 40 meters of 25mm line (you try it too)

If you're truly serious about this, you should contact Svenska Krydssarklub. They can help you prepare and help with finding out what you need. or else contact one of these ocean cruising clubs - here are people who've done it - they know what they are talking about

Jrsk Jordenrunt Seglarklubben

Lars Gunnar Svensson

Villa Maria Tynäs

S-663 02 Hammerö

Sverige

Oceanseglingsklubben

Box 15136

S-104 65 Stockholm

Sverige

[barnakiel]

At this price level I would get myself something like an Amel - something that was never meant for charter layout nor for the cans, but exactly as a man and woman yacht. Spacious, simple, safe, big, but easy for two. I think few other boats match Amel's sail'ability for a crew of just two.

BUT Amels are not dog boats - long way from the cabin to the cockpit then another long trip over the cockpit coamings.

Amel's all plastic deck is excellent for dog's poo as it does not hold any stains and is easy to wash down with a bucketful of seawater. But as I said your dogs will find it very difficult to access the deck to poo.

Modern cockpits of some Hanse are perfect for dogs poo - flat and open aft. Then again Hanses are ... not quite Amels.

Maybe you will have to prioritize whether it is you or your dogs that will get max comfort. The other party will have to suffer somewhat.

b.

[Boatguy30]

Glad to hear about the lack of dogs cruising in the pacific still. Will look forward to it. They'd eat them in Tonga anyway! Totally shocked by the number of dogs and dog piles on every mice beach in the Bahamas last winter. Let alone all the "companion animals" in the library, hardware store, etc.

[Trim50]

You're looking for my boat...perfect for two people with loads of room.

[jreiter190]

Look for a Morgan OI 41 or , better, a 50. All the weight,comfort and room you need for a long , slow circumnavigation.

[travellerw]

Just my 2cents about dogs. We originally planned to take our 2 dogs, but after extensive research we realized it was not feasible. We had to find homes for them and give them up before going. This was the hardest part of going cruising.

Actually, there is a recent blog post about how difficult it can be. This lady is having a nightmare in Fiji. Her dogs are quarantined to the boat. Yes, they can't come off even to go to the bathroom! At this point, her fines are about $1000.
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