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Old 07-05-2013, 04:34   #31
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Re: Where do self builders in steel and serious offshore cruisers hang out?

I had a re-read of part of the builder's website, seems that an earlier (shorter) version of the Wylo did offer a Marconi / Bermudan rig - but only a couple of folk opted for them.

My guess therefore is that a judgement has been made (partly on past experiance of the designer) that the extra cost for a re-design (including internally / structurally?) is simply not worth it. In any event I suspect that folks who are after something like a Wylo are likely less bound by the mainstream and therefore the target market is more open to the idea of gaff than those looking at Beneteaus etc, even if they still need some convincing.

Personally I think having a gaff rig on her does fit in well with the whole concept of the boat - whether a viable market for that concept in the 21st century is a time will tell thing. My gut says being a bit more of a looker would help, of course that would come at a price of practicality / interior space.
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Old 07-05-2013, 05:19   #32
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Re: Where do self builders in steel and serious offshore cruisers hang out?

Thanks everyone for joining in the debate about the rig. All the feedback is of interest and greatly appreciated. In response to the direct question of will we supply a different rig, we tried to anticipate this and answer it on the website.

'Gaff rig is standard on the Wylo 35.5 and we will not be offering any other rig on the standard complete boat, although owners who purchase the bare hull and deck option are of course free to rig it how they wish.'

Our general stance is that it is not our job to dictate to anyone. The product is available at all stages of build from a kit of parts, through bare hull and deck, sail away to a completely finished yacht. Owners can fit alternative rigs, engines and interior layouts as they wish. There are 40 plus Wylos out there and we have been guided by the fact that the owners who fitted non gaff rigs have been few in number and have in some cases retro fitted the gaff rig.

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Old 07-05-2013, 05:23   #33
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Re: Where do self builders in steel and serious offshore cruisers hang out?

Willie, how do you handle the CE marking issues for the Kit or semi - self build.

I know this has caused some issues for kit builders in the past

Dave
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Old 07-05-2013, 06:10   #34
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Re: Where do self builders in steel and serious offshore cruisers hang out?

Hi Dave,

This is not a simple area. The question you raise applies to all part built craft or kits. The details are contained here

http://www.britishmarine.co.uk/uploa...uide_Apr06.pdf

The bottom line for us is that Voyaging Yachts will deliver the complete boat with an RCD Category A certification. Should we deliver less than a fully completed boat the person who finishes the boat can trade off our work to the point that we pass over the product but then they would need to engage with the process outlined above to carry on through and obtain their own certification.

I hope that makes things clear.

Regards
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Old 07-05-2013, 06:12   #35
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Re: Where do self builders in steel and serious offshore cruisers hang out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie@VoyagingYachts View Post
Hi Dave,

This is not a simple area. The question you raise applies to all part built craft or kits. The details are contained here

http://www.britishmarine.co.uk/uploa...uide_Apr06.pdf

The bottom line for us is that Voyaging Yachts will deliver the complete boat with an RCD Category A certification. Should we deliver less than a fully completed boat the person who finishes the boat can trade off our work to the point that we pass over the product but then they would need to engage with the process outlined above to carry on through and obtain their own certification.

I hope that makes things clear.


PS: Have you plans for anything bigger, say 40'
Regards

Thanks, yes Ive been looking at this, and the whole issue of where my work starts ( and qualifies under the self build rules ) and the "manufacturers" ends is as clear as mud.

thanks for that

Dave
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Old 07-05-2013, 06:34   #36
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pirate Re: Where do self builders in steel and serious offshore cruisers hang out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Thanks, yes Ive been looking at this, and the whole issue of where my work starts ( and qualifies under the self build rules ) and the "manufacturers" ends is as clear as mud.

thanks for that

Dave
Its my understanding the CE is only required if the boat is built For Sale in the EU/Schengen zone... if it for yourself it is not a requirement... and stays that way.. even if you choose to sell outside CE countries... it is after all only a recent protectionist ploy to stop the flood of cheap US boats that were being brought over a few years back.
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Old 07-05-2013, 06:41   #37
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Re: Where do self builders in steel and serious offshore cruisers hang out?

Quote:
Its my understanding the CE is only required if the boat is built For Sale in the EU/Schengen zone... if it for yourself it is not a requirement... and stays that way.. even if you choose to sell outside CE countries... it is after all only a recent protectionist ploy to stop the flood of cheap US boats that were being brought over a few years back.
Given the Brits were the people that caused teh RCD/CE to be brought in always amazes me.

The main reason it was brought in was to ensure that multi country testing couldnt be used to prevent other EU countries boats being sold there, Italy was guilty of this, of course once it hard begun the brussels machine turned it into what it is today. ( this was for powerboats)

In my case I am in the EU and I do want to ensure I can sell it locally, So I am faced with the potential of a full post construction CE assessment in other to achieve Cat 'A'.

Its still only a paper exercise at this stage. Not to hijack this thread, but its an issue as the potential hull builder is a commercial enterprise and they're technically supposed to CE certify the work that they do, ( but they cant) , just like Willie has said they do.

Dave
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Old 07-05-2013, 07:00   #38
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Re: Where do self builders in steel and serious offshore cruisers hang out?

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
In my case I am in the EU and I do want to ensure I can sell it locally, So I am faced with the potential of a full post construction CE assessment in other to achieve Cat 'A'.

Its still only a paper exercise at this stage. Not to hijack this thread, but its an issue as the potential hull builder is a commercial enterprise and they're technically supposed to CE certify the work that they do, ( but they cant) , just like Willie has said they do.

Dave
My reading is that if you buy one off the shelf (already made!) from the builder that it comes with Cat A ......and there seem to be 2 versions of "ready made", the full monty (accross an ocean ready) and the sailaway (accross the bay ready!)......in paperwork terms they probably are both Cat A, just the barebones version you wouldn't choose to vacation on..........which together covers most options above bare hull and deck, in which case the owner is firmly in the realms of self building and not "part complete", which means the owner / builder gets to puzzle out the RCD himself the same way as if starting from scratch.

Of course I could have misread stuff
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Old 07-05-2013, 10:39   #39
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Re: Where do self builders in steel and serious offshore cruisers hang out?

Thanks for responding Willie.

It might be interesting to put it to a poll here on CF - who would be interested in Bermudan vs who would be interested in Gaff rigged versions of your boat. Seeing as this forum (getting back to your original question) is probably where most of your 'target market' reside, it could be a useful sounding board for this - or any other - questions you might have on design decisions. But since you seem set on gaff rig I have to say... best of luck! You have a fine looking hull, and the full width coachroof looks like a really interesting way of increasing interior space (speaking as a tall person). I hope it all goes well - as I said before, it's great to see a new yachtbuilder making a go of it in the UK. I will be following the progress of hull No.1 (enjoying the timelapse videos by the way)!
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Old 07-05-2013, 12:26   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post

My reading is that if you buy one off the shelf (already made!) from the builder that it comes with Cat A ......and there seem to be 2 versions of "ready made", the full monty (accross an ocean ready) and the sailaway (accross the bay ready!)......in paperwork terms they probably are both Cat A, just the barebones version you wouldn't choose to vacation on..........which together covers most options above bare hull and deck, in which case the owner is firmly in the realms of self building and not "part complete", which means the owner / builder gets to puzzle out the RCD himself the same way as if starting from scratch.

Of course I could have misread stuff
The clear understanding I have is that legally any component covered by the RCD must be CE marked. Hence any part completes must be too. Te whole things a mess.

Dave
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Old 07-05-2013, 13:01   #41
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Re: Where do self builders in steel and serious offshore cruisers hang out?

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Thanks for responding Willie.

It might be interesting to put it to a poll here on CF - who would be interested in Bermudan vs who would be interested in Gaff rigged versions of your boat. Seeing as this forum (getting back to your original question) is probably where most of your 'target market' reside, it could be a useful sounding board for this - or any other - questions you might have on design decisions. But since you seem set on gaff rig I have to say... best of luck! You have a fine looking hull, and the full width coachroof looks like a really interesting way of increasing interior space (speaking as a tall person). I hope it all goes well - as I said before, it's great to see a new yachtbuilder making a go of it in the UK. I will be following the progress of hull No.1 (enjoying the timelapse videos by the way)!
Hi Europaflyer,

It is good to be tall. My co-director Steve Sleight has written several best selling books about sailing and is infinitely more qualified than I when it comes to technical stuff. It also so happens that he is 6 foot 4 inches in his socks , so when he was looking for a boat headroom was an issue. Happily, in the Wylo 35.5 he does not need to stoop from the companionway to part way into the forepeak. I don't think we will be doing a survey as anyone who really feels strongly can instal their preferred rig.

Regards
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Old 12-05-2013, 15:15   #42
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Re: Where do self builders in steel and serious offshore cruisers hang out?

Finally got to watch the video. There is some unusual life line or rail system the staysail boom attaches to.

Looks like that has a story I'd like to hear.

In short, what the heck is THAT about?
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Old 12-05-2013, 19:23   #43
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Re: Where do self builders in steel and serious offshore cruisers hang out?

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Finally got to watch the video. There is some unusual life line or rail system the staysail boom attaches to.

Looks like that has a story I'd like to hear.

In short, what the heck is THAT about?
I'd say its the A frame for lowering the mast.
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Old 12-05-2013, 19:40   #44
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Re: Where do self builders in steel and serious offshore cruisers hang out?

Good guess. hadn't thought of that.

Hope the builder replies to clarify.
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Old 12-05-2013, 20:05   #45
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Re: Where do self builders in steel and serious offshore cruisers hang out?

'snot a guess, I read it here (in the para about tabernacle)
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