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Jbingham · 24-05-2014, 05:08

In light of Cheeki rafiki and the terrible tragedy to our community and especially the 4 men aboard, what are folks thoughts on pushing production boats to their limits offshore? Are the charter companies offering boats of this quality up for such challenging journeys out of line?

Seeing that keel snapped off is a real eye opener...

**boatman61** · 24-05-2014, 05:19

Don't hang the blame on Charter Company's alone... the simple fact is that Yacht Delivery is a dangerous occupation... one is given a boat to take from A to B... you accept the job on face value and no way can a through inspection be conducted..
I can just imagine the owner saying.. "Yeah... sure.. get her lifted and surveyed..

just tag the cost onto the bill"..

You look her over and on the basis of your experience and confidence accept or reject the job..
Personally I've delivered boats that would have failed surveys spectacularly... but.. if I got picky I'd never sail..
Boat owners are pretty much the same as Boat sellers...
They tend to view their boats through 'Rose Tinted Glasses'..

Jbingham · 24-05-2014, 05:26

Not me. I pulled my boat, dropped my rudder and had every inch inspected before my family was allowed on board. But that wasn't really the question.

The question again is does a benetau belong 1000 miles offshore?? They, in my opinion were not built to withstand this kind of conditions.

**boatman61** · 24-05-2014, 05:36

As someone who took a 321 solo with a mid June departure from SMX to the UK...
Then a 331 solo with an early April departure.. also from SMX to Portugal... at no time did I feel the boat was outside its comfort zone...
However.. having solo'd a Hunter 37c over the top of Bermuda from NC to the UK at this time of year I know the kind of conditions they faced.. the Hunter made it okay... sorta..

Does that make Hunters better boats..??

Cavalier · 24-05-2014, 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

Don't hang the blame on Charter Company's alone... the simple fact is that Yacht Delivery is a dangerous occupation... one is given a boat to take from A to B... you accept the job on face value and no way can a through inspection be conducted..
I can just imagine the owner saying.. "Yeah... sure.. get her lifted and surveyed..

just tag the cost onto the bill"..

You look her over and on the basis of your experience and confidence accept or reject the job..
Personally I've delivered boats that would have failed surveys spectacularly... but.. if I got picky I'd never sail..
Boat owners are pretty much the same as Boat sellers...
They tend to view their boats through 'Rose Tinted Glasses'..

+1. Just under 1/3 of the Arc Europe participates this year were Beneteaus, Jeanneaus, Bavarias or Hunters - and they all completed safely along with the rest of the fleet. I haven't checked yet but I can't think that other years would have been much different.

http://www.worldcruising.com/arc_eur...ntentries.aspx

The issue with charter boats is that you have no real clue to its history. The only way a charter company could control every aspect of their fleet would be to instrument the boat with accelerometers and data-loggers, and perform complete surveys between clients - not really something which is feasible.

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downunder · 24-05-2014, 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jbingham

Not me. I pulled my boat, dropped my rudder and had every inch inspected before my family was allowed on board. But that wasn't really the question.

The question again is does a benetau belong 1000 miles offshore?? They, in my opinion were not built to withstand this kind of conditions.

Why not. Many do cross oceans.

The Checki was certainly not a family cruiser and had been raced/sailed hard over many miles for a long time.. What the situation tells us that inspections and maintaince are important on all vessels

If you are considering a vessel for high latitude/artic type sailing perhaps you would look elsewhere.

**boatman61** · 24-05-2014, 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jbingham

Not me. I pulled my boat, dropped my rudder and had every inch inspected before my family was allowed on board. But that wasn't really the question.

The question again is does a benetau belong 1000 miles offshore?? They, in my opinion were not built to withstand this kind of conditions.

That's for you and your family... but.. would you do the same for a delivery skipper...??
I doubt it very much.. your insured.. its not your nearest and dearest at risk..
Yup... I'm a Cynical Buga...

Jbingham · 24-05-2014, 06:14

Just seeing that hull with what looks like 6 bolts that were holding on a keel was eye opening. Calling it a race boat seems like club racing maybe but open ocean, not me

Incentive · 24-05-2014, 06:25

unfortunately there's a history of their keels dropping, to me this is unacceptable from any builder.
if you make candy make good candy!!!!

deluxe68 · 24-05-2014, 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incentive

unfortunately there's a history of their keels dropping, to me this is unacceptable from any builder.
if you make candy make good candy!!!!

The only other 40.7 keel loss I know of was from a grounding (Lake Michigan?). J-Boats on the other hand have had more than a few keels or rudders wind up on the bottom.

SaltyMonkey · 24-05-2014, 07:04

Just say NO to keelbolts!

Jbingham · 24-05-2014, 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe68

The only other 40.7 keel loss I know of was from a grounding (Lake Michigan?). J-Boats on the other hand have had more than a few keels or rudders wind up on the bottom.

Comparing models to manufacturers seems vague. Have beneteau truly had a history of keel issues? I had a J100 j boat. Loved but wouldn't take it offshore.

Cavalier · 24-05-2014, 08:21

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread...ferences/page2

Worth reading through the whole thread start to finish, especially Rob_Webb's comment on page 2.

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scuba0_1 · 24-05-2014, 08:32

I would like to know how any one can answer this unless you're a boat engineer understand the dynamics of building a sailboat other than speculation guessing and things you have read from other people. History of keels falling off based on what. What is that from. You can show how many have been made and how many are now missing plus include what the boat had been thru for the ones that have fallen off. do you really think if that was a true issue the manufacturer wouldn't fix it. I have a friend that owns a Westsail and he has met the original builder and he asked him what it would cost to make that boat today and he speculated close to a million dollars for a 32. that's why they don't make em like that anymore.. there's a lot more to the story than just the manufacture... actually this probably has the least amount to do with the manufacturer..

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