The Death of the Ketch ?

[sailor1924]

Originally Posted by beiland

After this extended clarification of what distinguishes a ketch from a yawl, I suggest it would be interesting to explore the use of a staysail rigged between the 2 mast of either of these rigs.

There use to be a number of instances where an aux staysail could be rigged on a stay between the top of the aft mast and the base of the mainmast. If you google images 'staysail ketch' you would find a great number of such photos.

What I began to explore a number of years ago was instances where the mainsail was ditched in favor of this 'between the mast' staysail. This early example on a Morgan Out Island ketch was an eye-opener for me. Regrettably that article is long ago lost to my knowledge.

Conventional booms excessively flatten the foot of the mainsail, and are often oversheeted, contributing significantly to the leeway forces. I once had a copy of a test on a Morgan 41' Out Island ketch , where upon removing the mainsail, the boat lost only 1/2 knot of speed, but cut its leeway in half (from 11 to 6 degrees). A staysail was then rigged between the masts in place of the mainsail, and the boat regained 1 knot of speed while retaining its decreased leeway.Sail Propulsion - Revisiting a Mast-Aft Sailing Rig

I also remember seeing a 50+ Tayana yacht that had done the same.
Are there other examples?

Your inquiry and mention of googling images of a staysail ketch jogged my memory and I found an old photo of my old boat and two friends at anchor in Loyds Harbor, NY back in, I think, 1987.

From left to right is a 60' gaff rigged English ketch, a 74' on deck, converted Swedish river ferry rigged as a staysail schooner, and my old boat, another 60' English ketch converted to Marconi rig in the early 60's.

I loved sailing on the staysail rigged schooner and she was very fast and weatherly. The gaff headed ketch was not as fast as mine, but would pretty much sail with very little heel and was consequently very comfortable.

I benefited by putting up a mizzen staysail whenever I could get it to set without being back winded by the main. I did try flying it without the main but on my boat my mizzen wasn't tall enough to overcome the loss of area and in the end I only used it broad and sometimes close reaching. The biggest drawback to flying the mizzen staysail was that it usually meant I had to set two sets of running backstays on a tack.

I was enamored of the staysail schooner rig and I thought that my next boat would be rigged that way. Rarity of staysail rigs and other circumstances didn't work out but fortunately for me I once again own a ketch that can fly a mizzen staysail.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by beiland

Thanks for that posting Minaret.
Wow, 94 footer by an older couple.

That staysail appears to have its own boom as well.

You should look carefully at that rig, with its all furling sails including the mule, and the spacing of its masts. I've always thought it was genius myself, couldn't imagine a better more manageable rig for this type of vessel. Super easy to handle.

[ana402]

AMEL still build ketches. I have one . It's still quite big here in Europe , so I don't think it's dead yet

[SkiprJohn]

I'll always have fond memories of my old wooden Mariner 35 ketch. The places, the people and it's versatility and flying the mizzen staysail.

[B23iL23]

Not any more. They are down to two models - the 50 and the 60 and both are sloops.

Originally Posted by ana402

AMEL still build ketches. I have one . It's still quite big here in Europe , so I don't think it's dead yet

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by SkiprJohn

I'll always have fond memories of my old wooden Mariner 35 ketch. The places, the people and it's versatility and flying the mizzen staysail.

Love the single hand ability of my Mariner 32 Ketch.
No need to reef, just lower the main and run with the mizzen and jib.
My mast also has a second track for a main mast staysail.
Totally easy to single hand these vessels.
At about 22 degrees of heel, the heeling just stops, and you power on.
Doesn't sail to weather as well as my sloop did but takes puffs a lot better stability wise.
SV Cloud Duster

[antaris]

This ain't gonna make a huge difference to the world, but I love'em and just bought a 1970s Gin Fizz ketch last month!

I know that, technically, it makes no sense any more - yet I love the looks and the small and versatile sail plan.

[svMarite]

These are the exact reasons we bought a Shannon Cutter Ketch. Shes old but incredibly sturdy and when the wind pipes up, drop the main and stay at 7kts with no fuss relaxed helm, easy