Step Up Companionway - are they a pain or are they just fine

[hpeer]

EVERY story I have heard of a boarding states how unexpected, sudden, surprising it was.

I have never experienced one but I have found myself in compromising situations very quickly and without good warning.

ONE example (sailing Newfoundland) is we left Cow Head heading to Port au Choix in the morning with light winds expected to rise into the high teens. By 2pm we had lord only knows what wind and the Wx report was calling for 3+ meter seas in our location.

Note, that was a REPORT not a forecast because it was a report of real time conditions, the FORECAST was completely wrong. How or why the seas built that suddenly, and steeply I have no idea. We had many, many breakers, large orange net bouys were deeply submerged in the wave. Thankfully the wind and waves were going our way, so we had a prolonged sleigh ride and were dry the whole time. But that was luck, could have been much different.

The day before I was chatting with another very experience cruiser who had just been pooped on the Quebec side, and not the first time. His attitude was “Sometimes it happens.”

Not ALL boats require such design, but if you have more adventurous aspirations it is a good safety measure.

[nortonscove]

Having both fished and worked on tugs for decades and not years I will say that good seamanship dictates good practice when leaving port. Hatches need to be dogged and all potential points of entry should be checked. It is crew responsibility to ensure that any evolving situation is dealt with and on a sailboat is no different. If the conditions change the response to such should change. Skipper with any reasonable amount of experience will simply rely upon such to make the necessary call. People getting pooped and swamping the interior of the boat have obviously made an error in judgment and should not blame the boat if they have misused said boat. It is a poor carpenter that blames the tool.

[JPA Cate]

It depends a bit on how long are the passages you'll be making. Weather forecasting is a lot more accurate than it was 30 yrs. ago, but they still sometimes get it wrong; and further out than about 3 days, it can be way off. People can get surprised on voyages longer than 72 hrs. Even today. Going to sea for an over 3 day voyage in a boat without some kind of bridge deck on a sailboat where one breaking wave can flood you is either an act of great courage, faith, ignorance, imprudence, or stupidity.

Ann

[nortonscove]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

It depends a bit on how long are the passages you'll be making. Weather forecasting is a lot more accurate than it was 30 yrs. ago, but they still sometimes get it wrong; and further out than about 3 days, it can be way off. People can get surprised on voyages longer than 72 hrs. Even today. Going to sea for an over 3 day voyage in a boat without some kind of bridge deck on a sailboat where one breaking wave can flood you is either an act of great courage, faith, ignorance, imprudence, or stupidity.

Ann

I would guess that there are s great many that fit into those categories given newer boat design. In that group is where I would fit. I'm still not sure how you get flooded with well fitting weather boards. But then there remains those that feel the same about any design aspects newer than 1985. I will continue to look at the fact that many boats do this every year and I'm not aware of any information that supports personal beliefs masquerading as fact.

[El Pinguino]

I believe that bridge decks as shown in the OP are an abomination - having sailed on a few boats with them.
You can have a secure companionway without suffering that non sense.

I have a centre cockpit... companionway sill is about 4 inches... 3 washboards.
You do not have to be Billy the Boy Genius to work out how many washboards you should have in to suit the conditions.

In port nil... running in hard conditions all three, remove top one to make conditions easier when entering or exiting cabin.

If you are that afraid of death by drowning that you need the arrangement shown maybe best you stick to cowherding.

[psk125]

Originally Posted by nortonscove

Having both fished and worked on tugs for decades and not years I will say that good seamanship dictates good practice when leaving port. Hatches need to be dogged and all potential points of entry should be checked. It is crew responsibility to ensure that any evolving situation is dealt with and on a sailboat is no different. If the conditions change the response to such should change. Skipper with any reasonable amount of experience will simply rely upon such to make the necessary call. People getting pooped and swamping the interior of the boat have obviously made an error in judgment and should not blame the boat if they have misused said boat. It is a poor carpenter that blames the tool.

Agree. But have been at sea on a boat with a bridge deck in conditions where we had the hatchboards fitted and the hatch shut too. Having a bridge deck or substantial sill makes 'surprises' less dangerous.

[hpeer]

Norton,

I think the point we are turning about is the issue of “being surprised.”

The bridge deck or sill provides some significant level of protection 100% of the time so that when you are “surprised” you have that as a back up. Some of us feel that the additional level of security is well worth the effort. With washboards they have to handy and put in place before the surprise, which means often which means you have a de facto sill/bridgedeck.

I agree the pictured bridge deck is an “abomination” , not well executed and a PITA.

INHO much of modern boat design has gone away from seaworthiness and is catering to the those who sail coastal, occasionally, to dock queen. There is ever increasing interest in areas for “entertaining”. But also on ease of movement at dock. Which means they are designed for old fat people to entertain more than sail. Then of course once you buy it one tends to find arguments to self justify.

And in fairness there is some of that the other way around as well, my boat have a bridge deck or sill so of course that must be the CORRECT answer. LOL.

I can not tell you what your answer is, no one can. We can only tell you why we came to a different conclusion.

You don’t find a permanent water barrier important? So be it. Your boat your decision. I just happen to have a different opinion.

Good luck and happy sailing. Perhaps we will cross paths this summer.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by hpeer

I agree the pictured bridge deck is an “abomination” , not well executed and a PITA.

Actually not "all" that bad, their are untold #s of Swans out there with what could only be described as a an opening in the deck where one descends down a vertical ladder, no drop boards at all, but they install safety rail each side of the hatch.
Probably works fine for a young/agile crew.

[Tupaia]

Visitor prevention feature.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

Actually not "all" that bad, their are untold #s of Swans out there with what could only be described as a an opening in the deck where one descends down a vertical ladder, no drop boards at all, but they install safety rail each side of the hatch.

Probably works fine for a young/agile crew.

Yes- but that level of bridge deck is just as much to provide an aft cabin.

I do think in addition the mainsheet traveler between that high companionway and the cockpit on the OP boat, and many older Swans, is a significant danger. I bet more people have been injured or worse by a sudden gybe in that mainsheet setup than boats that are pooped and sink.

[El Pinguino]

^^^^^^ Zackery.
The W33 had no bridge deck but was replaced by the Westerly Discus - as sailed by Bob Shepton - which had quite an expansive one.
Scroll down here Westerly Discus archive details - Yachtsnet Ltd. online UK yacht brokers - yacht brokerage and boat sales for a photo.
Said to have been done for the sole purpose of more living room below https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/i..._33_and_Discus
relevant bit here
'The bridge deck Discus had her cockpit moved right to the back of the boat with a raised “bridge deck” about three feet long just forward, which gave onto the companionway hatch. You may feel that crossing a raised bridge deck in heavy weather could be a little daunting, but with four stainless steel “Granny bars” conveniently placed by the hatch and on the coaming, one soon gets used to it. After all, Swan owners seem to manage very well with the same system.'

Meanwhile the 'big fella sea that is going to come out of nowhere and sink you' is still going to get below if the hatch is open - bridge deck or not. In fact the bridge deck will make sure of it.

I doubt a single sea is going to sink any boat by down flooding through the companionway.
Meanwhile I wonder where I fit in
'Even today. Going to sea for an over 3 day voyage in a boat without some kind of bridge deck on a sailboat where one breaking wave can flood you is either an act of great courage, faith, ignorance, imprudence, or stupidity.'

[tgradyv7m]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Bridgedecks are very seaworthy and entirely impractical !!

LOL. Yes!

[gonesail]

it looks like a big step up (and then down) for people and animals. especially awkward with a dodger .. unless it is high enough to allow easy entrance below. usually bridge decks are the same height as the seats.

[Tortuga's Lie]

Originally Posted by nortonscove

The hundred year old smoker and one off events don't add any reason to a discussion. If any of these designs can be said to have significant disadvantage I think it would come to light. Let's face the fact that old designs change for a reason and if it were found that it was indeed more detrimental to the boat or crew someone would point it out in real terms and change would happen. Convenience does play a part in this whole equation and looking at the companionway steps in the Adams 12 I'd fear descending those in big seas as greater every day danger over any fear of pooping because I trust my seamanship over any footwear makers choices.

Modern designs are mainly market driven. Most boats today are used on weekends and for short week-long cruises so what sells are boats designed for lounging about at anchor, entertaining and the glamour of Euro-slick boat. They design what sells, not necessarily for the rigors of the sea. You notice I wrote not necessarily as there are always exceptions.

[El Pinguino]

What is the difference between a high bridge deck and a storm sill of equal height?

Apart from difficulty of ingress/egress.