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**Pblais** · 31-12-2007, 06:16

I had a neighbor refitting a Crealock 34 for exactly that trip. There are of course many alternatives but I doubt you will find anyone saying that these two would not be good choices. For alternatives there really are too many to list. The trick is making the money work! Why not post a message in "Meets and greets" and introduce yourself.

henryk · 31-12-2007, 11:05

When I bought my Tayana this year , it had a standing rigging replaced three years ago ,new running rigging this year , the haul was scraped to the matt , epoxied ,anti fouling , brand new sails , including main , cruising spinnaker , stay sail ,and genoa . New battery bank ,inverter and controls .New wind instruments ,depth ,speed .
I will have to add : bimini , windlass , solar panels , wind generator , water heater ,maybe a rudder rebuilt , auto pilot , SSB radio and bunch of other little stuff that will ad to the total cost . If I can get away with thirty thousand, I'll be happy , and forget about watermaker.
So, if you get yourself an ex charter and ad all those things that I had already had on my boat ,you'll be looking at minimum of fifty thousand . An this is here , in the States , in Europe everything is much more expensive .

ughmo2000 · 31-12-2007, 11:23

I helped deliver a Lagoon 37 bought out of charter.

She looked good although needed some work, both cosmetic and mechanically.
If the new owner put another 20K in her he'd have a very nice boat indeed.

As others have stated often, deals are out there in ex-charter boats. Just have to be in the right place at the right time and know a good surveyor.

Best of luck!

bvimatelot · 31-12-2007, 15:40

Here in the Caribbean (BVI), you'll find a huge range of boats coming onto the market in about June of each year as they come out of the Moorings/Sunsail charter fleet at the 5 year point.

As has been said - there are good and bad ones and the important thing is to get a thorough survey done by a recognised surveyor.

The point about the unloading of charter boats annually is that, there are some owners who HAVE to sell quickly - and these are the ones to go for as they will be several thousand dollars cheaper than the ones who can afford to wait to achieve their desired price (which aint gonna happen anyway!!).

I've delivered a stack of these ex charter boats all over the place and find that, provided the owner has been diligent in chasing up the charter company with regard to their contractual obligation of refitting the boat in its "phase-out", they are in pretty good condition (fair wear and tear accepted) and have many years useful life in them. Having said that - Check the Engine Hours!! Tony

markje4 · 03-01-2008, 03:32

I am thinking of doing the same thing - but have a couple of years to go.

I have switched my search from Med-based boats (read, Greece, Turkey, Croatia, etc) to those in Germany, Netherlands. These are predominantly VAT paid and appear to be mostly privately-owned but still comparable in price to those in Med region.

Good luck in search.

glamourdigs · 03-01-2008, 06:35

Last summer of 2007 we looked at a 62 ft yacht in Ibiza that was built in 1985. It had alot of extra space that newer boats don't have due to the design. When we took a local friend with us to check it out, our friend was told by the local captian of the boat that the engine room is normally filled with diesel fuel all over the floor. The boat had been paying a normal slip fee for the past 15 years but now since the marina was slated to be reformed...the boat was not going to have a slip....so we passed on the purchase. We have found that it is next to impossible to get a slip at a reasonable rate in the Med.

glamourdigs

Morski Krastavac · 10-01-2008, 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by glamourdigs

Last summer of 2007 we looked at a 62 ft yacht in Ibiza that was built in 1985. We have found that it is next to impossible to get a slip at a reasonable rate in the Med.

glamourdigs

This is nonsense:

First of, define "reasonable"

Secondly: a 62 ft Yacht in Ibiza can never be "reasonable" which is the whole point for those who have a 62 footer in Ibiza... Where you find a "reasonable" slip for a 62-footer anywhere on the planet would be another interesting discussion.

If on the other hand you refer to "unreasonable" slip rates in the Med regardless of size, well you did not do your homework. As a general rule "the Med" does not exist as a homogeneous sailing-region. I've said this many times: there is a huge difference between Algeria and Slovenia, between France and Lebanon... As a (very) general rule: the further east you go, the more "reasonable" it gets.

In my experience many US-sailors equate the Balearic islands and the Cote d'Azur with "the Med", which would be same as to consider Aspen and The Hamptons representative of the USA.

TassieBloke · 11-01-2008, 06:14

Markje4 I would have thought that the fact that many boats in the Adriatic area (and other areas of the MED) do not have the VAT paid, that this would be an advantage if you were planning to cruise back to OZ or wherever. I have to agree with Morski when comes to what is defined as reasonable. I went through the whole exercise of buying a boat to put into charter in Balearic Islands. One of biggest costs were the marina fees. However the marina fees in the Adriatic (Croatia) were vastly different for the same boat, perhaps things have changed now, as it was the time when the whole chartering thing was relatively new there. I didn't go ahead with the whole deal due to other reasons, but it taught me a lot about how the prices vary. A you know what the crazy thing is? When you consider that most people are going to have to fly to wherever they charter, 30min or 1hr more in a plane can change your charter costs significantly. The only difference is that you can't say you were sailing around Cote d'Azur... each to their own I guess

markje4 · 11-01-2008, 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by TassieBloke

Markje4 I would have thought that the fact that many boats in the Adriatic area (and other areas of the MED) do not have the VAT paid, that this would be an advantage if you were planning to cruise back to OZ or wherever.

At present the plan is to keep the boat in the Med for several years with me returning to OZ at the end of each season (perhaps wintering at some stage).

I would eventually sell the boat over there (so VAT status could be important) if, and/or, when I feel the need to return permanently to OZ.

Cognizant of my present ability, as much as sailing back home appeals to me, it is something that I would only consider with many more years 'before the mast' and a competent, experienced crew.

Regards
Mark

Morski Krastavac · 12-01-2008, 05:29

@ Mark

The VAT issue is imho somewhat overrated and receives more attention than it deserves. As a non EU-citizen (which I suppose you are) your boat can stay in any EU-country for 18 months, much longer than your visitor's visa will allow (most nationals may stay uninterrrupted for 3 months or 90 days). Once your 18 months are up leaving the EU for any length of time will reset the clock. All over the Med you will find non-EU countries that are well worth a visit within a 1 and 1/2 year time window for sure.

I will write you an email on the subject as a detailed explanation here would distort this thread.

skipperaris · 21-01-2008, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazycanucks

My wife and I, along withour two sons - 13 and 15 are looking to purchase a used 40 - 45 footer out of a mediterranean charter fleet (though this is not our sole avenue for purchase - but we are leaning toward it). We then plan on cruising the area for a couple of years. Has anybody bought a time expired boat (read: outlived it's useful life - no longer sparkly in new condition) from a charter fleet, or know of anybody who has? We're considering something from the Jeanneau range - and anything up to about ten years old.

Cheers
John and Bobbie

Your basic plan is good. Maybe I can help you a bit.
I only know the Greek charter market intimately but I suppose the logic is much the same in all charter markets.

charter boats are in fact owned by individual owners who buy on credit. Charter companies arrange the purchase and the chartering so that repayments can be met.
Charter boats are sold because they are past their commercial prime. Charter clients insist on new models. Five years is the normal maximum charter boat age. Then she has to be sold and the owner usually buys another newer model.
Buying directly from the individual owner will probably get you a better price than buying from the charter company.
His motivation will be to capitalise so he can raise a deposit for his next boat. A charter company will want to make a profit from the sale.
Being 5 years old usually means that teething problems have probably been solved. Being "for sale" means that basic cosmetic etc work has been done.
Of course you must do your homework on the individual model you are considering and you will need a surveyor.
There are many boats advertised for sale on internet. Once you have the price for the model and year you should look for a private sale at 10 - 20 % less than that. Don't be afraid to bargain...
There will be some paperwork. Familiarise yourself with it! You must be able to check the titles of ownership, for example.
The time to go shopping is towards the end of the charter season.

........*thinks* Whose side am I on?

zavier38 · 22-01-2008, 15:00

The credit crunch means there are plenty of motivated vendors out there right now. Most charter fleet operators will sell at the right price only. I've bought power boats (not sail) in the UK as much as 25% off asking. If the vendors got a VAT return / payroll / alimony to make then he's going to be open to an "insulting" offer. And there's alot more people, in the UK at least, who are worried about paying their bills.

In any case there's no such thing as insulting someone with cash.

My younger brother is a boat dealer with around 200 listings. At the moment he's buying at 50% discounts on what he'll re-sale for if vendors need to burn for cash. The market's on it arse, according to him and other dealers I've spoken to. Bargain hard!!!

btrayfors · 22-01-2008, 15:06

John and Bobbie...

Check out this thoroughbred blue-water cruiser, a Fast Passage 39, which is presently in Holland for sale:

SSCA Discussion Board :: View topic - MUST SELL - Fast Passage 39, an awesome bluewater cruiser

These boats are very strong, roomy, and have even participated in the single-handed round-the-world races!

Bill