Need Advice About Crack in Fiberglass at Ridge of Bow / Keel

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by STG

That is what he said the surveyor told him. Dremel and blow it out, and fill.

RUN !! a surveyor makes a written report that the owner should have shown you. Not having it means it wasn't surveyed.

It sounds like you want forum members to tell you it's okay to go ahead and buy... but we don't because you really must hire a surveyor !

cheers,
Nick.

[Ziggy]

One more thing--if you do decide to buy this boat, I suggest contacting the designer (Sparkman and Stephens, I believe) for repair advice. Come to think of it, you could try contacting them for advice before buying the boat.

[barnakiel]

Just grind off the top layer and see what is going on below. I do not think the owner will protest, and if they do ... walk off.

Some boats hulls built of two halves - check with owners forum if this is the case.

I have never seen any problems with two halved hulls anyway. Ask around if they can split.

b.

[STG]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

It sounds like you want forum members to tell you it's okay to go ahead and buy... but we don't because you really must hire a surveyor !

Not the case at all. I am well aware a survey is prudent. Just asking if this is a common occurance. The ridge is certainly not enough info to determine if I should buy the boat or not. Thanks for the reply though. So far it doesn't sound too common.

[roverhi]

A repair, if needed, would be done on the outside of the boat. You'd grind down the exterior glass and laminate a wrap around both sides of the hull using epoxy resin. I wouldn't worry about it, however. It's almost certainly just gel coat cracks.

[STG]

Originally Posted by roverhi

A repair, if needed, would be done on the outside of the boat. You'd grind down the exterior glass and laminate a wrap around both sides of the hull using epoxy resin. I wouldn't worry about it, however. It's almost certainly just gel coat cracks.

Thanks, that is what I am thinking too. How bad could it be to fix? I supposed worse case I have to pull the interior out of the V birth area to fix structure, but the crack isn't big enough to suggest too much movement. I just don't want catastrophic failure while on the water.

I haven't heard from anyone that has actually experienced this yet though, so I am going to be somewhat optimistic unless I hear of some calamity that started with this scenario.

[CDunc]

IMHO I would walk away, the Crack where you describe should not be there, it speaks of hull flexing perhaps the boat was layed down on her side, as in when boats fall over during a hurricane and another boat fell against her. Should you decide to repair her you will need to grind it out with say a 12/1 or even 20/1 bevel and replace the glass laminate overlapping each successive laminate no less than 2", so the width of the repair could be 8 or more inches to each side. If the boat wasnt layed over then you would wonder what caused the crack in the first place. I would look at the bulkhead tabbing against the hull from midships forward, and closely at the keel for signs of grounding or more so bumping (where the boat contacted the ground in a vertical only type of motion) such as when anchored in too shallow water and with the lowering tide the bottom of the keel bumped against the ground.

[Minggat]

I have a similar problem, not yet taken care of becaiuse I've been too far from my boat. Go here ... (for much of the same advice)

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...bow-27668.html

Walking away from a boat I already own isn't a question I have to deal with.

Here's what I found from the survey. Crack was not so serious an issue, but bulkheads that had pulled away and need to be glassed in is going to be a pain, but no so costly. So get a surveyor and let him look for what other related things are worth paying attention to.

In my case, the survey cost more than the repair estimate.

[STG]

Hmmmm…. all of this has actually inspired a different thought now. This is not hurricane country, and in my almost 50 years, I have never been in one around here and the sides all look great. The boat hull looks very good and I did check for any wear at the bottom of it for grounding. Fiberglass is intact, and there is no exposed glass at bottom of keel or rudder or even worn off paint. The hull is very smooth and when viewed at angle did not look like it had any patchwork done. Deck is firm with no soft spots.

However, it is sitting on the keel and blocked in between the keel and the crack with a post, and has only two stands on each side. The boat has sat this way for 10 years. I suppose the weight of the boat on the stands and the post near the cracks could have caused some flexing over the years as people have been climbing on the boat to do odd repairs, etc.

I will take the advice and check the tabbing at bulkhead though, and spend a little more time trying to look into compartments for any issues up front.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by STG

Are cosmetic cracks at this spot common then?

No. and what you have ain't cosmetic anyway. Yours is part of the 00.01%.

For me the dirty great big red flag is the current owner. a) He's selling her. and b) selling her unfixed............that tells me that someone with far more first hand knowledge than you (or me) can have before owning has decided it is a) something to worry about and b) not an easy or cheap fix.

But we all like a tempter Price the boat up on a worst case $$$ scenario (interior out and reinforcement behind - all done by a proffessional under supervision of a Surveyor / Engineer / Naval Architect).........so that when the grinding starts on the outside and follows the crack through to the inside that you alone are not paying for that (of course not to say you can't DIY some or all - but you want contingency in the bank before starting). and keep your fingers crossed not as bad as (IMO) likely and then you get rewarded $$$ for taking a risk

If I was the owner I would bodge it with Epoxy filler - and a few coats of Antifouling.................

[Adelie]

Is the crack longitudenal or transverse to the boat? The way I understood it described I thought it was transverse, but a bunch of others are talking about it being from glassing 2 hull parts together which implies longitudenal. So which is it?

[STG]

It runs along the ridge of the bow from the water line (down) towards the keel. It follows the center of the ridge. So it does make sense that this is where two halves would be jointed.

[Ziggy]

Originally Posted by STG

However, it is sitting on the keel and blocked in between the keel and the crack with a post, and has only two stands on each side. The boat has sat this way for 10 years. I suppose the weight of the boat on the stands and the post near the cracks could have caused some flexing over the years as people have been climbing on the boat to do odd repairs, etc.

I don't think that would be enough pressure to cause a crack like what you describe.

[Kristian]

Hi!
Well my 2 cents worth:
Based on working on a yacht of almost identical age and similar design..

I do not belive this is any problem you should be too scared from. The boat is almost certainly built in two halves and the "crack" you can see is a void in the Gelcoat. The strength in the hull comes from the lamination on the inside and since this is a late 60 ies production designed by the masters at SS they sure have dimensioned it like a tank ( they did in them days).

So where does the "crack" (void) come from?

First , the two hull halves were clamped together and then glassed with many layers of glass ( as thick or even thicker than the hull) to join them into one strong hull. This was sure done before the polyester had fully hardened and thus ensuring a perfect chemical bond of the laminates, ( within some 4 weeks depending on temperature)

So the important thing here is the inside lamination and when this was done you should take care of the cosmetic filling of the gelcoat , This undertaking is for sure not just in this "birth void" of the boat but in many other places where the gelcoat is not perfect from comming out of the mould.
I belive that in filling this crack the person doing this missed getting the gelcoat fully into the void.

I belive they intended the yacht to have a metal rail in the bow from the top down to a bit below the waterline. In this case the " crack " would not be visible.

If this would be the result of some overstressing the laminate due grounding etc the thing would look entierly different with cracks running perpendicular to the stress or "star shaped" cracks (very fine) due sharp pointed impact.

In a hull looking like that one I would be looking for stress cracks 10 feet down the freeboard from the bow since the hull do not have much curvature there and need supporting or strengthening to take care of hard beating in heavy seas.

I belive she is a boat really flying upwind ..

Generally speaking.
the hullform and the dimension standards when the boat was built gives that you do not have to think about the strenght of the hull.

I would be looking at other things as the rigging ( including chainplates etc) , Steering , Engine and the whole electrical system not to mention tanks ( both water and diesel to determin how much money must be spent to be sure you have a reliable cruiser.

I am sure you would get a fantastic yacht if the total survey by a reputable surveyor indicates a yacht in a condition that you expect for the money you want to pay including the money you are to invest in things ageing to the point of needing to be fixed.

Good Luck!

[Capt.Fred]

Do not buy a serious boat without your OWN surveyor! When you take the PO to court will you use his attorney? The sea is tough.