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Old 08-02-2011, 18:27   #31
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I'm with you John. I agree. But we all lhave our own ways of sailing.
It's what ever works best for you.

As a wise man, Bill Russel coach of the Seattle Super Sonics once said,
" Experience don't mean ****"
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Old 08-02-2011, 18:33   #32
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We do indeed. Ever raced the same boat with a guest skipper? It's funny how the different approach can have entirely different outcomes even with the same equipment and crew.

Re: the preventers: Essentially, what I had pictured were more vang-like than preventer-like in that they went forward on either side from mid-boom down to the toerail, with block and cam cleats leading aft.

I found in broad reach in heavy air that I could tension either side, ease off on the mainsheet, and then do about as slow a gybe as I cared to do. Yes, there is a potential for straining the boom, but I find it much easier to maintain a steady pressure than with just the mainsheet.
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Old 08-02-2011, 18:40   #33
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We never sail without rigging the preventer, unless close-hauled. Firstly accidental gybes break gear and hurt people. Secondly, our three point mainsheet doesn't always give the best shape to our mainsail. A combination downhaul/preventer takes care of both.
Jude
If ours backwinds, it'll pop back when we get our girl going back in the right direction.
Furthermore, Perry is so correct when he states haul in the mainsheet during gybes to slow it down and get rid of all that cordage.
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Old 08-02-2011, 18:49   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyandah View Post
Furthermore, Perry is so correct when he states haul in the mainsheet during gybes to slow it down and get rid of all that cordage.
Dang... I thought everyone knew that.... and those that did not soon 'got it' when the mast hit their heads...
Personally... being a 'Lazy Sailor'.... I usually only have the furling jib out when running downwind..
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Old 08-02-2011, 18:59   #35
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My original comments were based on the conditions described by the OP.
Short-handed crew, stiff breeze, or worse, boat on A/Pilot, higher performance fin-keeler.
Not the best conditions to have preventer rigged IMO. But we can all get caught out sometimes.
I sail with a preventer regularly to stop the old girl rolling. It is a 4-part line purchase, no jammers, mid boom, and rigged vertically to deck pad-eye. 3ft long snubber over the boom to take the shock loads. Back to a self-tailing jaw, easily cast off.
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Old 08-02-2011, 19:02   #36
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ah ha,commonsense prevails..............
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Old 08-02-2011, 19:04   #37
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G'Day all once more,

It might well be wise to never sail so deep that accidental gybes can happen, but I seem to lack that wisdom. And setting up preventers to the mid-boom can stress the hell out of the boom... 'tis true! So, Ann and I try to make the best out of a bad situation.

On Insatiable II the boom attachment is a heavy webbing strop which spreads the load over a reinforced area in the boom, and this helps avoid the "partial boom gybe" depicted above. None the less, when we were new to the boat we got caught aback by a violent windshift (45+ kts) in a line squall. Should have reefed when we saw the roll cloud approaching, but not all that clever at times. Anyway, I was at the mast casting off the halyard when the shift hit. I watched with horror as the sail back-filled with a huge bang, and the boom beeeenttt to leeward. "O ****" sez I. But everything held, Ann got the boat straightened out and we continued reefing... but ever since then the boom has had a slight curve. Had the preventer not been rigged, the resulting violent standing gybe might well have taken out something expensive... runner, batten in the main, traveller or mainsheet blocks... whatever! We'll never know...

We also find that the preventer (as mentioned by Alchemy) when lead to a cockpit winch allows very controlled gybes, much as a boom-brake does. It also does an exemplary job of stabilizing the boom in slatting, rolling light airs.

As BP says, it all depends on your sailing style, but for us it's a don't leave home without it item. YMMV.

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Towlers Bay, NSW, Oz
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Old 08-02-2011, 19:13   #38
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Quote:
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ah ha,commonsense prevails..............

Mine---or yours ?
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Old 08-02-2011, 19:22   #39
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eerrr

Quote:
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Mine---or yours ?
does it really matter?

common sense being the one thing thats difficult to teach......
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Old 08-02-2011, 19:27   #40
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I'm with Bob on this one.

The only time I'll rig a preventer is in a combination of light air and large swells where there's not enough wind in the sail to keep the swell from jibing the boom. We lead our preventer to the helm, and only use it when the helm is manned because the autopilot doesn't know how to release it.

Sometimes a boat needs to jibe, and in those instances if a preventer keeps a proper jibe from happening, even a crash jibe, it can cause a lot more havoc than it prevents.
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Old 08-02-2011, 19:29   #41
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I don't like preventer's either and sheet in prior to gybing. I absolutely hate DDW and the wallowing that accompanies it.
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Old 08-02-2011, 19:35   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob perry
I'm with you John. I agree. But we all lhave our own ways of sailing.
It's what ever works best for you.

As a wise man, Bill Russel coach of the Seattle Super Sonics once said,
" Experience don't mean ****"
We've only used a preventers in light air and slop to reduce slatting. Works great in that setting.

But Mr. Perry, how can you possibly describe one of the handful of best basketball players to ever play and the winner of, I believe, twelve NBA championships with the Boston Celtics, as "the coach of the Seattle Supersonics"? While factually correct, it seems akin to describing Nat Herreshof as Halsey's grandfather. :-)
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Old 08-02-2011, 19:53   #43
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That is a very weird question.
My answer is :
It was factually correct, so end of that.
Next. I don't know and I don't care.
Go do an eye splice and get some reality back into your life.

In all honesy I'm not much of a basketball fan. I just thought that was an interesting quote.
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Old 08-02-2011, 19:57   #44
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" Experience don't mean ****"
a bit like common sense in your part of the world i guess
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Old 09-02-2011, 07:58   #45
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I think this thread demonstrates both the advantages and disadvantages of preventers. I was like many and didn't use them (haul in sheet, jibe, let out sheet) until faced with long downwind passages with light conditions. The slapping made me rig preventers. This worked so well I started thinking about the negatives in heavy weather and how to deal with that, if at all possible. After an uncontrolled jibe (which ripped a dorade vent off the deck at the same position on that passage where another boat 24 hours before us broke a vang) I found two "solutions":

1- I had changed my running backstays to spectra and found that jibing the main into a runner absorbed 99% of the shock. Nice and we kept doing this whenever we don't have preventers rigged and conditions are exciting.

2- With preventers, like Bob said, at some point something has to give. I decided to engineer that "weak" point. My preventers now lead aft to rope clutches which will slip the line when forces get too high, but hold it again when forces go down. They absorb the shock so to say. You have to select the right clutch with the right line diameter so that the holding power of the combination is good but low enough to be the first thing to give.

cheers,
Nick.
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