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Old 06-07-2017, 14:14   #1
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Looking for a conservative boat in Europe

Finally outing myself.

We, my wife and myself want to start our boat search soon (possibly this autumn) and would like to hear the suggestions of the community as to a suitable type.

The purpose of the boat would be to perform ever increasing sailing as our duties on the land will diminish. We will start on the Baltic Sea, but eventually I want only our abilities and not the boat’s to be the limitation (I know this is unrealistic, but you get the idea I hope). I do not want to change the boat, as I am very bad at trading.

The boat has to provide a high notion of security and take anything that Mother Ocean throws at it. I do not believe in the modern notion that one can outrun bad weather. Speed is no issue for us.

The boat has to provide a space for just two of us (being rather small people), my home office (Software Engineer with just a big laptop), and my wife’s cello. The latter can be then exchanged for one of our sons in an improbable event they want to join our adventures. We will not start with a permanent life aboard, but I would not exclude it in the future.

Therefore, I have arrived at an idea of a heavy displacement, traditional long keeler of 35 feet. Sloop or cutter rigged, aft cockpit, preferably tiller. What is not there, cannot break.

It must be available in Europe, preferably in Germany.
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Old 06-07-2017, 14:19   #2
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Re: Looking for a conservative boat in Europe

You are singing my song.

I love heavy displacement yachts with long keels and good directional stability.

If I was going to sail in the high latitudes, I would get a Westsail 42/43. It is and has always been my favorite heavy displacement double-ender go anywhere in the world cruising yacht. I have looked at many of them, and I have always been impressed.
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Old 06-07-2017, 16:51   #3
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Re: Looking for a conservative boat in Europe

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxingout View Post
You are singing my song.

I love heavy displacement yachts with long keels and good directional stability.

(...) Westsail 42/43. (...)
Not really available in Europe
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Old 06-07-2017, 23:34   #4
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Re: Looking for a conservative boat in Europe

Koopmans sr has drawn several long keeler designs which are still being built today.
Some of these are also equiped with a small centerboard in order to point a bit higher,some can also dry out.
here is one example;
1991 Hutting (Koopmans) 40 Zeil Boot te koop - nl.yachtworld.com



(I have added 5ft just for the Chello..you get the picture)


Other options are Colin archer type sailboats


Enjoy the search!
Cheers,
JJ
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Old 07-07-2017, 00:48   #5
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Re: Looking for a conservative boat in Europe

10 best long keel yachts - boats.com
Rustler 36
& have a look at their boats:
Skippers 2018 - Golden Globe Race
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Old 07-07-2017, 04:19   #6
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Re: Looking for a conservative boat in Europe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Browning View Post
Finally outing myself.

We, my wife and myself want to start our boat search soon (possibly this autumn) and would like to hear the suggestions of the community as to a suitable type.

The purpose of the boat would be to perform ever increasing sailing as our duties on the land will diminish. We will start on the Baltic Sea, but eventually I want only our abilities and not the boat’s to be the limitation (I know this is unrealistic, but you get the idea I hope). I do not want to change the boat, as I am very bad at trading.

The boat has to provide a high notion of security and take anything that Mother Ocean throws at it. I do not believe in the modern notion that one can outrun bad weather. Speed is no issue for us.

The boat has to provide a space for just two of us (being rather small people), my home office (Software Engineer with just a big laptop), and my wife’s cello. The latter can be then exchanged for one of our sons in an improbable event they want to join our adventures. We will not start with a permanent life aboard, but I would not exclude it in the future.

Therefore, I have arrived at an idea of a heavy displacement, traditional long keeler of 35 feet. Sloop or cutter rigged, aft cockpit, preferably tiller. What is not there, cannot break.

It must be available in Europe, preferably in Germany.
I heartily applaud your decision to take to the high seas as a lifestyle change.
However, like many modern sailors you incorrectly assume that fixed keel boats provides safety in all that "Mother Ocean" can throw at you. In extreme conditions it is not the wind that is the sailboats greatest threat. The biggest "Killer" of fixed keelboats is breaking waves, in other words, when the wave tops move faster than the water deeper in the wave. A fixed keelboat's deep keel is locked into the water that surrounds it while the breaking top of the wave is not. The fixed keel acts as the fulcrum while the breaking top of the wave acts as the lever. If a large breaking wave top strikes the hull on its beam, you will be knocked down and possible turned turtle. Only a highly experienced and aware helmsman with or without ancillary devices such as trailing warps(long lines) or drogues can prevent this from happening.
Only boats that can control the depths of their underwater appendages, can prevent getting knock downed without heroic actions by the helmsman and crew. Why? With the appendages up inside the hull, the hull will simply slide sideways with the breaking top. I humbly suggest you continue your search.
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Old 07-07-2017, 04:50   #7
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Re: Looking for a conservative boat in Europe

...negative stability of the french centerboarders is awesome though too...
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Old 07-07-2017, 05:06   #8
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Re: Looking for a conservative boat in Europe

Quote:
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...negative stability of the french centerboarders is awesome though too...
Certainly very true, but to get upside down you first have to get knocked down.
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Old 07-07-2017, 10:02   #9
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Thumbs up Re: Looking for a conservative boat in Europe

Take a very serious look at a Cabo Rico NE400 Pilot house. A great live aboard, even has an office/den and you are not living in a sub-basement! A serious 'go anywhere' motor sailer (100HP Yanmar) that actually sails extremely efficiently. This was semi-custom yacht designed by Mark Ellis, built in Costa Rica with extremely fine finishes. Not inexpensive, but if you want travel in comfort from the Baltic in the north to the Med in the south, this is your yacht! (Think heating and air conditioning!)
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Old 07-07-2017, 10:07   #10
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Re: Looking for a conservative boat in Europe

BTW as for bad weather ... there are so many weather stations with reasonable forecasting that can be trusted ... if it does not look good ... DON'T GO!
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Old 07-07-2017, 12:28   #11
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Re: Looking for a conservative boat in Europe

Thank you all for the responses so far.

Rustler 36 is certainly an option, if it happens to be around in Germany and at available price.

The specs stay at
- longkeel
- 35 feet (3 feet for cello already added, otherwise I would grab a Monsun and be happy)
- sailboat
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Old 07-07-2017, 14:46   #12
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Re: Looking for a conservative boat in Europe

I may be biased, as I own an old Rasmus, but one of the models from Hallberg Rassy may suit you
They tend to be solid, conservative designs

Good luck with your search
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Old 07-07-2017, 15:41   #13
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Re: Looking for a conservative boat in Europe

You might not want to limit your search for boats in Germany. If you find a boat elsewhere that you love, figure in the cost of having it delivered and if it still a good buy, consider it. The more choices you have, the better the chance of getting a good (for you) boat. The drawings of the Rustler reminded me of my old Contessa 26. It sailed very well and I suspect the Rustler would sail much better than the Colin Archer type boat. People seem to forget that pilot boats were designed to go outside the harbor and heave-to for days on end waiting for a job (large vessel) to arrive. That is a different type of sea keeping ability than something designed to get from point A to point B in a proper manner. Windward ability matters for cruising. ____Grant.
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Old 09-07-2017, 02:02   #14
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Re: Looking for a conservative boat in Europe

LS,

Try to search on " Yachtfocus.com ", one of the biggest EU sources of sail and motorboats!.

Egards, Martin
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Old 10-07-2017, 12:29   #15
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Re: Looking for a conservative boat in Europe

I'm with you as far as cruising boats are concerned and I have sent you a private message with info that might interest you - let me know what you think.
Cheers
J
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