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Old 31-07-2008, 00:15   #16
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Thanks for the info

Thank you everyone for the info. I really apprieciate all of your opinions and knowledge. The thing I am picking up most for you guys is to be carefull about the partnership. We plan to be very careful. We are all very good friends. We hang out alot together, camp together and one of the guys works for me and is my motorcycle riding buddy. This is our plan, please let me know if any of this is mistake or if you have any suggestions. We are first going to start with the tender, some sort of inflatable with outboard. We plan on using and playing with it in local waters. Our idea is to start small and see how we interact with each other on the water. When it comes to the sailboat we will form a legal California partnership with the documents drawn up by an attorney. We will all be equal equity partners. We are going to put down as much as possible in writing so that there are no assumptions. Some of the list may be: Calander of who gets to use it for what time. What the perameters are for sharing the boat during another couples time. Rules for how people enter or exit the partnership. We are also going to set up a bank account for the partnership that we will each contribute a set monthly amount to (maybe $150-$200) the account. This money will be used for monthly maintenance and mooring fees. We will also have a clause for special assesments for larger repairs or higher dollar maintenance. We will also have some sort of clause for responsibilty of damaged caused by one of the partners. We are definately going to have a detailed check list of procedures to take it out and put it away. We all think this is a good way for us to enjoy a sailboat at a reduced cost. It will also give us some great people to sail with.

Speaking of sailing together. It would be very rare that all three couples would do an overnight trip together. The boat would just be too crowded. We might to an overnight to the Channel Islands with all six, but some would most likely camp on the beach. We would however like it to be large enough for six people for day sailing and four people for overnight trips. The longer mutiple week trips would be reserved for one couple most likely. I didn't make this clear in my first post.

As far as the boats, the Catalina 30 seems to be large on the interior and there are plenty of them close enough by in our price range in good condition. Some even have newish diesel engines and a good sail inventory. I think we would definately prefer roller furling for the jib. Is this an expensive upgrade? Or should this be a big priority in searching for "the boat".

I know there is a huge difference in size between a 27 and a 34. I have sailed a 27 Jaguar for two weeks and a 33 Bavaria for two weeks. The Jaguar was almost too small for my wife and I. Part of this was due to poor layout, part was due to smallish boat. The Bavaria seemed very large after the Jaguar. The Bavaria seemed plenty large enough for our needs. I think it would have slept six comfortably. Keep in mind we are all good campers and can rough it a bit, if we need or want to.

A couple of you have mentioned Ericson as something we should consider. We will. We do not have a bunch of knowledge about boats YET. That is why I asked for your suggestions. There are also many Ericsons available close by, we will check them out. Paul, however, had an excellent point that we really had not thought about. The Admirals! The captains and I have been doing most of the planning so far. We really need to make sure we have the blessings of the admirals or there may be no boat at all. They might not be willing to rough it as much as the captains. We may have to sacrafice sailing ability for creature comforts. This makes me think again about the Catalina 30. What are some of the true draw backs of this boat?

Thanks again everyone! This is going to be a truly great resource for us. I just wish I would have found it several years ago.

John
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Old 31-07-2008, 04:25   #17
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They might not be willing to rough it as much as the captains. We may have to sacrafice sailing ability for creature comforts. This makes me think again about the Catalina 30. What are some of the true draw backs of this boa
Simple answer. Ask the Admiral. She will know when she sees one. This is where some group boat hunting trips together would help. You have had this thread going a while with some good suggestions. The group all needs to see some boats and you all need to talk about it some more.

If you consider the type of use you are planning it helps separate out a lot of the details. You are not planning on extended trips with 6 people and you expect to stay in coastal waters with weekends and a few long holidays thrown in mostly 2 at a time. If you want to more long range capabilities for the whole group then that boat is not in your list yet.

This is where looking at a few boats above your budget can help set the expectations properly. With a $700,000 budget the doors open a lot wider than $10,000. They need to see what the money can purchase.

I think it's common for people to think the 30 is big enough (it is) and 27 seems to be a good low end of the scale too (it is). It is also common to later decide that the 32 / 34 is really what you want and with a family 36/38 starts to seem better yet. Since you have tried out several, I think walking around a few more with the whole group can get you closer. If you look at boats out of the water they look far too big so I would avoid that unless you can see a similar boat in the water. I found the admiral didn't like climbing double hung ladders 12 feet in the air.

Making everyone happy and making the money work should pretty much fill your current agenda. If you can get the group headed in a particular direction then additional research can help get all the details out.
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Old 31-07-2008, 06:20   #18
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Columbia....NO

I wondering why this thought?
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Old 31-07-2008, 08:52   #19
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Thanks Paul

Thanks Paul for the detailed information and great advice. You have given me some great information to start with and take to the group. I will have all of them log on and check out this thread as well.

Thanks for asking that imagine2frolic. Why would you not recommend the Columbia btrayfors?
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Old 31-07-2008, 10:25   #20
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I am curious, because I took a 30ft. Columbia through some unwanted torture in the Sea of Cortez. The did better than myself.....lolololol

Frolic is a shoal keel with an extended rudder, and tracked well in 20ft. plus waves rounding Point Conception in 50mph winds. For a 30 footer she had a good amount of room. The only downfall I ever thought she had was a gas Atomic Bomb for a motor. Although there was never a problem.
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Old 31-07-2008, 12:59   #21
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No Gas

We are definately going to stay away from gas engines.
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Old 02-08-2008, 13:46   #22
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welcome xcountry rider!

I think a shared ownership is a great way to go....I am looking into it myself for a 30 to 36 foot cruiser on SF Bay. Of course there needs to be a lot of thought and time put into management before an actual purchase is made. However, for people like me it is the only possible way to have some equity in a nice larger boat. If you can only sail a couple weeks and a few weekends a year then it makes good practical sense. I would enjoy sailing with one another couple (sharing the helm allows for more "kick back" time) but for overnighters it is too close for comfort with more than four. I would rather just share the "ownership" than the "time" and set up a scheduling system that allows each owner his own time. The fractional ownership companies to a good job with this but then again you are placing money into this service. I took lessons on a 30 foot Hunter and this may be another boat to consider though I have heard to pass on those over 12 years old. Catalina is probably what I will look at first. Good luck.
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Old 02-08-2008, 17:34   #23
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We owned and are selling an Islander 36 but not in your area. They are great boats, we went out sailing when many other people were comming in because it was too rough. I have not owned any of the other boats you are discussing, but I really like the Islander.
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Old 02-08-2008, 19:31   #24
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islander designed by perry=yes;
ericson=yes
catalina--i would not
columbia--NO
bristol=yes

as above---watch the partnership stuff and gooood luck---all the boats are great 2 people boats------

personally--i have a formosa 41. it sleeps 1 plus one kat......go figger....it would sleep 2 if there were 2 to sleep.......
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Old 03-08-2008, 14:21   #25
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The Partnership - I am in a two family partnership. We did not know each other well in teh beginning but we get along great. I have a very detailed partnership agreement I would be glad to send you if you like.

The best part is the fixed expenses and repairs are shared. The second best part is that the boat is used constantly. I see tons of boats sitting each weekend and that is not the case with us.

The partnership agreement has everything you described and more.

The boat - I like tiller steering up to about 30 feet and then wheel steering starts to make sense. I have sailed Catalina 27s and I find that the sheets don't run anywhere convenient to the helm so single handing would be problematic. The side decks are narrow and the shrouds land right in the middle of the narrow side deck making getting to the foredeck a PITA. I don't know if the 30s are like that.

I am renting a Hunter 31 today. I'll let you know what I think of it as an alternate boat.

I suggest you sail these boats as rentals before committing to buy. I would also get you and your friends on the water in a sailboat together as much as possible as well.

One thing we worked out was the weekend roster - i.e. who has "control" of the boat. If other partners joined that day it was clear the 'controlling" partner was skipper for the day and everyone else was crew.

YTou have to be careful of "sailing by committee." It doesn't work. You can give the skipper advce but it's up to him whether to use it or not.

I also vote for diesel only.
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Old 04-08-2008, 23:09   #26
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Great advice

Thanks everyone for the great advice. You have all given me some great information that will be invaluable.

Dan thanks for the great information. I like what you said about the weekend rosters. It makes a lot of sense. I would love to see your partnership agreement. Not sure if you should post here, but please PM me, I would really appreciate it. How did you like the hunter. We will be on a Catalina 320 in the near future. The only problem is that it is much newer than what we will be able to afford. Hopefully the admirals don't get to accustomed to it and then disappointed by what we can buy.
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Old 05-08-2008, 20:54   #27
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x-country - I sent you a PM.

Unfortunately, due to a booking screw up the Hunter was double booked and gone when we arrived.

All other boats were booked except the Catalina 22s and so we took one of those. The wind was great and we had a blast anyway.

Hunter review will have to wait till next trip ;-)
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Old 05-08-2008, 22:40   #28
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A 30 something sailboat can get awful small for more than two people-It may be doable but success is probably rare.
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Old 09-08-2008, 00:22   #29
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30 something

I am afraid a 30 something sail boat may be a bit small. We will be renting 28' Catalina in a couple of weeks and a 32' Catalina in a couple of months. When I get my certs we will be renting larger boats to check them out. The only problem I see is that the boats we rent will be much newer than what we will be able to buy. I just hope the admirals don't get discouraged
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Old 06-09-2008, 04:06   #30
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catalina 320

xcountry rider, Go check out that catalina 320. These boats are very popular for their sailing ability and comfort. The design was so well thought out it has barely changed over the years. Also catalinaowners.com has good info. Very beamy offering a lot of room for comfort cruising, storage etc. Private aft cabin, private v-berth at opposite ends for when 2 couple are sailing. I also like ericsons for bluewater cruising but they lack the beaminess for comfort design, And in my recolation dont stand up and perform as well as the 320 but they are solid. Islanders are also solid. Columbia not so good. My dad is a 3rd generation sailor coming from boat builders and he searched for years before deciding on the 320. We just put it up for sale (original owners) on craiglist in ventura county. I can honestly tell you you wont be dissapointed with a 320. Low maintenence, holds resale value, easy to handle. It is a great idea to partner up as boats like it when they are run, electric juiced up, and sails/ lines shaken out. Dont get a 30, too cramped (especially if you sail with 4) and they pick up chop. Make sure you get auto pilot, roller furling, stepped through mast, double spreaders, and your right- diesel only! Best of luck to you, 4th generation sailor.
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