Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-05-2014, 07:31   #61
Moderator
 
Hudson Force's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lived aboard & cruised for 45 years,- now on a chair in my walk-in closet.
Boat: Morgan OI 413 1973 - Aythya
Posts: 7,894
Images: 1
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
I think its an age money thing...older sailors with deep pockets motor a lot more cause its easy peasy. Younger sailors with low budgets sail more because they don't want to buy the diesel plus they have higher energy and think nothing of setting the chute.
'many factors here,- When I was a younger cruiser I often motored more because I had a deadline and a need to be back at work early monday morning. As an older cruiser, I have the option of sailing more because I have no work restrictions. Your point is good too, but there are too many factors to tag this behavior by age.
__________________

__________________
Take care and joy, Aythya crew
Hudson Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 10:32   #62
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Atlantic ICW 29N/81W
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 36CC, now sold
Posts: 817
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Only one boat so far today has passed our home overlooking the ICW at Daytona Beach with any sail up and that was only an unrolled genoa. Closer inspection with binos revealed water exiting from the exhaust so this one was not truly sailing. The wind is light, maybe <10kts but was on a beam reach for vessels passing us either headed north or south. I suspect it is also easier to negotiate bridges etc under engine alone so lots of times it is not worth bothering with the sails until there is a good chance they can be used for more than a short period. however speed and economy can be improved with a litte unrolled headsail area helping. Then again if there are lots of other boats about visibility ahead is easier if no sail is used. Horses for courses and it all depends....
__________________

__________________
Robin3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 11:05   #63
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,886
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin3 View Post
Only one boat so far today has passed our home overlooking the ICW at Daytona Beach with any sail up and that was only an unrolled genoa. Closer inspection with binos revealed water exiting from the exhaust so this one was not truly sailing. The wind is light, maybe <10kts but was on a beam reach for vessels passing us either headed north or south. I suspect it is also easier to negotiate bridges etc under engine alone so lots of times it is not worth bothering with the sails until there is a good chance they can be used for more than a short period. however speed and economy can be improved with a litte unrolled headsail area helping. Then again if there are lots of other boats about visibility ahead is easier if no sail is used. Horses for courses and it all depends....
Supporst the idea that 50% sailing is very optimistic. Not that it can't be done but it's not the norm by a long shot.

We often wind up using the wind that way. It's 10-15 seconds to roll the headsail in or out to get a boost when the wind is from the right direction and if we are in congested areas, we often leave a few wraps on to improve visibility underneath.

If we had a simple reliable method for rollerfurlers on the mainsail, I could see using it a lot more but if the wind forecast isn't looking to good for our intended course, we often just don't bother.
__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 15:42   #64
Moderator
 
Hudson Force's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lived aboard & cruised for 45 years,- now on a chair in my walk-in closet.
Boat: Morgan OI 413 1973 - Aythya
Posts: 7,894
Images: 1
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Hey, I've motored by Robin3's condo on the ICW. Nancie and I even had the honor of meeting Robin and his wife as well as touring their new boat. There's no question that most everyone passing on the ICW would be motoring; however, there is the coastal passage to the north offshore. We've done more sailing close, but off the coast of Florida as opposed to the ICW. I'm sure there is a number doing some sailing north this time of year to the east of Robin's condo in the ocean, but I'm sure Robin sees most of the migrating flock motoring on the ICW.
__________________
Take care and joy, Aythya crew
Hudson Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 15:50   #65
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: Bristol 38.8
Posts: 1,625
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

We all sail less than we'd like, for all of the reasons stated here. Another reason to motor or motor sail when sailing conditions are less than optimal is to charge the batteries. I'm installing a wind generator, however, and plan to run the iron jenny a lot less from now on.
__________________
Curmudgeon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 17:22   #66
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Atlantic ICW 29N/81W
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 36CC, now sold
Posts: 817
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptForce View Post
Hey, I've motored by Robin3's condo on the ICW. Nancie and I even had the honor of meeting Robin and his wife as well as touring their new boat. There's no question that most everyone passing on the ICW would be motoring; however, there is the coastal passage to the north offshore. We've done more sailing close, but off the coast of Florida as opposed to the ICW. I'm sure there is a number doing some sailing north this time of year to the east of Robin's condo in the ocean, but I'm sure Robin sees most of the migrating flock motoring on the ICW.
The honor was all ours and we do 'see' some sailboats headed northbound on AIS via the internet sites but if their engines are on or off or on doesn't show on internet AIS. our new to us boat has roller furling genoa and an in-mast furling main, something I was not a fan of but after a bad stroke in 2012 and wanting a simple easy to handle setup it seems ideal for us now and the ability to deploy either or both sails and put them away just as swiftly is seen as a definite plus. Our last sailboat in the UK had a tall rig with a tri-radial cut main and fully battened sail in high tech Hydranet material running on roller bearing mast track batten cars, with 3 slab reefs as well as a flattener reef all handled back in the cockpit with a 2-line system, very effective but not near as quick to deploy or un-deploy as our new pull-string setup.. I will still be leaning towards a reduced donk existence but if needs must the motor will get used.
__________________
Robin3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 15:25   #67
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,963
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Ah, nice 97% sail day today...about 20nm down wind run under spinnaker in light air thru the San Blas...back to Carti to drop off a guest. Now at anchor having a cold beer delivered to the boat by a local! Good day!
__________________
belizesailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 15:32   #68
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,963
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin3 View Post
.... Closer inspection with binos revealed water exiting from the exhaust so this one was not truly sailing. .... I suspect it is also easier to negotiate bridges etc under engine alone ...
I know at least some bridges that won't open if they suspect you are under sail only.
__________________
belizesailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 16:30   #69
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,140
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Ah, nice 97% sail day today...about 20nm down wind run under spinnaker in light air thru the San Blas...back to Carti to drop off a guest. Now at anchor having a cold beer delivered to the boat by a local! Good day!
Lovely!
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 16:44   #70
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Atlantic ICW 29N/81W
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 36CC, now sold
Posts: 817
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
I know at least some bridges that won't open if they suspect you are under sail only.
Understood but these yachts were clear of all bridges nearby which have 65ft clearance and were headed north with the next lift bridge many miles away. There is a bridge south of us that lifts on request if they like the sound of your voice, but who refused to do so for me in my first pass through it in our then liveaboard trawler when the lady tender said 'you have plenty of clearance, no need to lift', we needed 21ft with all aerials down according to the previous owner and the gauge said 21ft was all there was, We did not know there was another few feet to be found in dead centre because that was not stated anywhere although locals later told me that there was. We now have a sailboat again and there is no argument with bridges because the mast is clear for the tenders to see.
__________________
Robin3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 16:57   #71
Registered User
 
Zanshin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Jeanneau 57
Posts: 1,621
Re: How much time is spent actually sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
...Over the last year I have used more dinghy fuel than diesel.
Mark
Awesome observation! I've been here sailing the Caribbean this season since the beginning of January, I just filled up on diesel for the first time but almost every liter was used to run my genset and not my engine. I think I have 50 hours on my main engine in 6 months and moving around at least 2-3 times a week, sometimes more. This engine time is just as Mark observed - 20 minutes or so to get into and out of an anchorage.

The exception came last week - I had to get from Antigua to the BVI via St. Martin on a schedule. The winds died on me and I motored/motorsailed for 20 hours all told because I needed to get here. If I hadn't been on a schedule I would have waited until better winds came around.

Considering those 50 hours in 5 months consist of warm-up and cool-down times, I would put my motoring at less than 10% of sailing time and even less considering sailing mileage.
__________________
-Zanshin (SV Zanshin)
Zanshin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 17:22   #72
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,140
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: How much time is spent actually sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanshin View Post

The exception came last week - I had to get from Antigua to the BVI via St. Martin on a schedule. The winds died on me and I motored/motorsailed for 20 hours all told because I needed to get here. If I hadn't been on a schedule I would have waited until better winds came around.
But isnt that the point......... if you had to be somewhere, or was bored, or just fed up of a 1.8 knot sail......... the engine would go on.
Most people, me included, would do that.

On the other hand, Im glad you are having a relaxing time and living it large.
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 17:29   #73
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,468
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

G'Day all,

This has been an interesting if fanciful discussion! Lots of conclusions drawn from lots of estimates, many of which seem to be based on ICW travels... a small subset of cruising IMO.

So, I got out our log books and did some simple calculations based on the last eleven years of our cruising life... the time since we moved aboard this boat in 2003. I would have added in the previous 17 years, but that data is not currently available to me! Our cruising grounds have been coastal Australia, ranging from Lizard island in northern Queensland to Southwest Cape in Tasmania, and multiple ocean passages between Oz, New Caledonia and Vanuatu. Here's what I found:

total miles logged: just under 45,000
total engine hours: 3200
our usual motoring speed when actually trying to get somewhere is about 6 knots.
First calculation shows that if we were in fact motoring at 6 knots for all of the 3200 hours, we were motoring 42% of the miles.

But, despite having 240 watts of solar plus an Air-X, in winter months we fall short of keeping up with electrical demand, and resort to running the engine to charge batteries.
We hate doing this, but still do so around 100 days each year. This accounts for something around 1100 hours. If we subtract that time from the total, we now find that we were motoring for around 2100 hours, or (again assuming 6 knots) 28% of the miles.

Now, realistically, we don't really spend every motoring minute at 6 knots. A fraction is spent entering and leaving harbours and anchorages, mooching around looking for spots to drop the hook, rubbernecking and other slower activities. I can't give an accurate estimate for the number of hours thus spent, but a conservative estimate would be 10 % of our motoring time, and an average speed of perhaps 3 knots while engaged in those activities. This would reduce the number of miles motored by 630 leaving 11970 miles motored, or about 26 %.

So there you have what I believe to be a reasonable estimate of the actual percentage of miles covered under power rather than sail by a full time cruiser, doing a mix of coastal and ocean miles. Incidentally, we have found that we've motored more on teh East coast of Oz than anywhere else that we have cruised. I think this is due to many destinations being barred entrances, and those demand arrival at a particular part of the tidal cycle for safe crossing. This introduces the dread schedule into our usually unfettered lives, and promotes motoring to maintain our projected speed of advance. Sad but true!

I realize that these numbers are at odds with what has been posted in this thread... you will have to decide which represents your version of cruising when predicting your own usage. I know what has been the case for us!

Cheers,

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 17:45   #74
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,140
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
G'Day all,

This would reduce the number of miles motored by 630 leaving 11970 miles motored, or about 26 %.

This introduces the dread schedule into our usually unfettered lives, and promotes motoring to maintain our projected speed of advance. Sad but true!

Cheers,

Jim
HI Jim. Thanks for that accurate overview.

For most of us...... we are affected by schedules. Britain is tidal hugely and getting in and out of harbours has to be scheduled accordingly.... Like you found, to maintain the schedule the motor has to be used in light airs.

Personally on single handed trips I get bored after a few hours of sitting in still.

The Med is like that, all or nothing. Upwind sailing, I engine assist.

The reality is, for most people, there is limited time if not a full live aboard situation. If I want to get to Mallorca from Ibeza or Menorca, I usually have a window to do it in and something to do later that day or the next... I HATE arriving at dark so make sure I can get there in my comfort zone.

So you are on the lesser end of using the engine...and its STILL 26%..

it doesnt change the other figures, mine included.

__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 19:12   #75
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: The Netherlands
Boat: Baltic 38DP
Posts: 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
We all sail less than we'd like, for all of the reasons stated here. Another reason to motor or motor sail when sailing conditions are less than optimal is to charge the batteries. I'm installing a wind generator, however, and plan to run the iron jenny a lot less from now on.
Have you done any research on the effectiveness of wind generators? They generate nothing to next to nothing more than 75% of the time. I decided it was a waste of money. We have just received our Watt&Sea hydro generator, delivers 300W at 6 kts, at no measurable drop in speed.


Onno
__________________

__________________
JazzyO is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sail, sailing

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Record for time spent Hove-to micah719 General Sailing Forum 49 18-09-2016 05:25
Best Money You Spent... Mimsy Off Topic Forum 47 28-04-2011 05:26
Liveaboard Maintenance Time Spent Per Week Agility Construction, Maintenance & Refit 10 09-01-2009 17:27
How I Spent My Afternoon... ssullivan Multihull Sailboats 31 07-05-2008 21:16
How much of a bluewater/open ocean boat do I actually need? Crossett Monohull Sailboats 36 21-05-2007 10:24



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:24.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.