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Old 20-04-2014, 13:38   #1
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How Fast is Your Boat?

Have you ever wondered really how fast your boat is in comparison to other designs? Maybe some of you already know this site but for sure some of you don't...
Anyways i found this website that i found very useful in finding out how fast a boat really is...
It shows the PHRF racing handicap rating of sailboats, this doesn't apply to multihulls (for multihulls its texel rating)... anyways the lower the PHRF rating the faster the boat.
I think this list is only for designs before 2008 though...

http://offshore.ussailing.org/Assets...+Handicaps.pdf
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Old 20-04-2014, 18:28   #2
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Re: How fast is your boat?

PHRF ratings are a way to compare boats for around the buoys racing in ideal conditions. It heavily rewards windward and light air sailing ability. For coastal cruising, it has some relevance but not much for offshore sailing. The typical routes that cruisers take usually have stronger winds and reaching conditions that favor boats with lower sail area to displacement ratios and more wetted surface. We were able to make consistently faster passages than supposedly faster boats in our supposedly slow Westsail 32. They consistently finish mid pack in the single handed Single Handed TransPac beating larger and theoretically faster boats boat for boat. Put one in a light air area like Long Island and they won't be competitive.

Depending on the area and type of sailing you intend to do, PHRF may or May not be something that's high on your list to consider.

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngson View Post
Have you ever wondered really how fast your boat is in comparison to other designs? Maybe some of you already know this site but for sure some of you don't...
Anyways i found this website that i found very useful in finding out how fast a boat really is...
It shows the PHRF racing handicap rating of sailboats, this doesn't apply to multihulls (for multihulls its texel rating)... anyways the lower the PHRF rating the faster the boat.
I think this list is only for designs before 2008 though...

http://offshore.ussailing.org/Assets...+Handicaps.pdf
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Old 20-04-2014, 18:32   #3
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Re: How fast is your boat?

Good info... i was just mentioning a website that i found useful, i wasn't bashing any boats.
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Old 20-04-2014, 18:38   #4
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Re: How fast is your boat?

PHRF ratings are not perfect, as they are based on average performance over a wide range of conditions. Long Island Sound ratings may be different than San Francisco ratings, as the wind is usually stronger in SFO. However, they cover a lot of designs and are far better than believing people's bragging about their boats.

Single handed racing based on PHRF handicaps gives an advantage to smaller boats, as it is easier for one person to handle the sails on these boats. However, there are no handicaps in cruising and bigger is generally faster.
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Old 20-04-2014, 19:09   #5
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Re: How fast is your boat?

Its all about water line. We are 58 LOA and 47 LWL. Hull speed is around 9-10. We often exceed that given a reach or close reach and brisk wind. My cousin's sister ship to ours made 15 crossing the S Pacific for 10 days straight. We've seen 10 knots running with main alone & strong winds.
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Old 21-04-2014, 17:08   #6
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Re: How fast is your boat?

How fast is my boat? I normally answer that with "faster than your house!" LOL
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Old 21-04-2014, 20:38   #7
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Re: How Fast is Your Boat?

Had to laugh, most of my boats were easily rated, popular huls or hulls with lots of local racing comps, my new/old boat model has NEVER been rated but I'd love to still do offshore long distance racing seeing that I'd get killed in Wednesday night beer can racing.
Now if they can just rate it......
Sent it in awhile ago but haven't received a rating, I do feel for the committee though, I'm not sure too many people want to race a 47 Center Cockpit, 40,000lb boat. Do I get compensation for the 6KW generator? Does it go faster with the icemaker turned off?
My last boat I made the guys bring minimum gear and kept just enough beer (and almost no water) to get to the destination since weight was so critical.
It's all a matter of perspective, what makes a boat successful in round the bouys racing doesn't necessarily make it a long distance winner, especially in a long distance race. My previous boat, a C&C 38, re-ballusted and with a custom keel was great in light winds and a capable offshore racer, but was less radical in design than some of her contemporaries which made for a better all around boat. That's why my wife and I were able to use her for cruising too, but, and there's always a but, it was also more demanding due to the performance edge and huge sail area for it's displacement, great in light wind as long as you reef early and carry a storm sail on an inner forestay.
The price for that light wind performance? It is a more fatiguing boat to sail short handed over a long distance, with a couple of extra crew for a passage, no problem, but with short crew you'd reef early and often, therefore losing the performance edge.
Our current boat may not accelerate out of a tack very quickly but I would be willing to bet it will perform much better over the long haul.
How do you rate a boat on it's ability to prevent crew fatigue?
I agree that PHRF can give you a basic feel for the potential for speed from a given hull but there are so many other factors to consider, especially when sailing short handed.
If I were racing to Bermuda with a crew full of buddies? The C&C hands down, fast, confident, solid. Going there with my wife and two boys? Our current Cheoy Lee CC, fast enough, sea kindly and stiff. I can't afford another divorce, it's just too damn expensive. Cuddling up in a wet bunk with your drunk racing buddies just isn't the same.
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Old 21-04-2014, 22:31   #8
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Re: How Fast is Your Boat?

Keep in mind the PHRF ratings are based on a triangular course. Boats like the Westsail 32 go to windward like a straw bale so they are given a huge time adjustment to compensate. Then they enter a race that is mostly a downwind race with that PHRF rating and do very well (of course) and then we never hear the end of it, LOL. As others have said, good info for racing but not necessarily that worthwhile a measure for cruising.
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Old 21-04-2014, 22:41   #9
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Re: How fast is your boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailmed View Post
How fast is my boat? I normally answer that with "faster than your house!" LOL
Good line!
That would be us too.....

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Old 22-04-2014, 03:42   #10
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Re: How Fast is Your Boat?

I feel left out. My boat's not listed! Oh we'll, I don't race anyway...
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Old 22-04-2014, 18:16   #11
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Re: How Fast is Your Boat?

Ours is not listed either. We have the same predicament as Lifo'. We go like heck passage making but we have to furl to tack. 36 Tons; 15'-7" beam; modified full keel and +/- 20 degrees of rudder. If Lifo' gets generator credit, I'm standing in that line. 12 KW; fridge, freezer, two AC units; 1700 # of anchor & chain.

Our first day on the water (8 knots of wind), we were helped by friends. As soon as the jib rolled out he said, "everyone to the rail".
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Old 22-04-2014, 18:30   #12
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Re: How Fast is Your Boat?

The PHRF certificate I have for my Freedom is rated 141, and at certain points of sail with a favorable tide, she'll move along at 10 knots. But that doesn't actually mean much because as a new sailor and without intimate knowledge of local conditions, I consistently get out-sailed by the other boats. In our club's fleet of Cal 20s (PHRF around 240, I think), we often blame the boat as being slow, but when we switch skippers around, the same experienced skippers win no matter which boat they race. So there is much to be said for how fast a boat actually sails by the nut at the tiller....
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Old 22-04-2014, 18:50   #13
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Re: How Fast is Your Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Keep in mind the PHRF ratings are based on a triangular course. Boats like the Westsail 32 go to windward like a straw bale so they are given a huge time adjustment to compensate. Then they enter a race that is mostly a downwind race with that PHRF rating and do very well (of course) and then we never hear the end of it, LOL. As others have said, good info for racing but not necessarily that worthwhile a measure for cruising.
There was a lot of stink about that subject durring ther transpac.. story is they re-rated the boat mid race due to its down-wind performance.

On another note, A shipping container will reach hull speed with enough sail area.
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Old 23-04-2014, 07:11   #14
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Re: How Fast is Your Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamayun View Post
The PHRF certificate I have for my Freedom is rated 141, and at certain points of sail with a favorable tide, she'll move along at 10 knots. But that doesn't actually mean much because as a new sailor and without intimate knowledge of local conditions, I consistently get out-sailed by the other boats. In our club's fleet of Cal 20s (PHRF around 240, I think), we often blame the boat as being slow, but when we switch skippers around, the same experienced skippers win no matter which boat they race. So there is much to be said for how fast a boat actually sails by the nut at the tiller....
I did not think my Cal 20 was fast till my friend that has raced since he was a kid take it out. He had the boat moving great. All tiny tweaks. It was the first time I saw water coming up through the engine well. Now if I come back in with dry shoes I am disappointed. Understanding ratings and conditions seem to be the key. Black Feathers was slow but corrected out to 8th. Then you add on local knowledge. I learned a few feet can make a huge difference.

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Old 23-04-2014, 08:03   #15
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Re: How Fast is Your Boat?

At times, my boat is pretty fast. I have an Island Packet. I can easily cruise at 10 knots...with the engine running, 3 sails up, 60 knots of wind, calm seas, and hooked up to a pod of 50 dolphins...

Other than that I'm not going anywhere fast.
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