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Old 23-01-2015, 00:35   #16
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Re: Finding the monohull family cruiser for ARC 2019

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
I'm not saying this can't be done.
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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
That's 23k euros right there and that is assuming your GPS/chartplotter etc are in good condition (3k). Also assuming you won't need new/spare sails (10-12k). Also assuming your autopilot is in good shape(2k). So is your engine(?). And so is your rigging(4k). These last items will add another 20k.
I think you started out your e-mail on a positive note then as you wrote it you start contradicting your first statement. Lots of assumptions there. And you have not taken into account the work that hull and deck might need. We know how that works in the boating world: a boat is never as good as you think it is, even if you are experienced at assessing it.

I think particularly the assumption that you don't need sails for a RTW trip is a pipe dream. Even if your main and genoa come with the boat and are perfect (which is rare), you still need a heavy weather solution (which very very few boats in the 20 - 50k range will have). A passage wind set up is not strictly required but certainly very, very desirable.

The best bet, to my mind, is to buy a boat that was already rigged out for a RTW or was doing one when she came up for sale.

To me, this one is an absolute bargain. You'd have to sail it back from NZ, though (or give up on the idea of the traditional ARC and maybe join the World ARC for the second half).

Unieke kans voor vertrekkers - Duende te koop

Perhaps it would be good to look for boats in the Canaries? There might be a couple for sale where people gave up the dream. Not sure about that but it might be worth investigating.


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Old 23-01-2015, 03:04   #17
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Re: Finding the monohull family cruiser for ARC 2019

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Originally Posted by JazzyO View Post
The best bet, to my mind, is to buy a boat that was already rigged out for a RTW or was doing one when she came up for sale.

To me, this one is an absolute bargain. You'd have to sail it back from NZ, though (or give up on the idea of the traditional ARC and maybe join the World ARC for the second half).

Unieke kans voor vertrekkers - Duende te koop
o
That is an excellent example of how someone these days should present their boat when selling and with all of the free blog sites that have great flexibility with design and ease of setup, there is no excuse to not do it that way.
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Old 24-01-2015, 04:23   #18
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Re: Finding the monohull family cruiser for ARC 2019

Thanks all for great suggestions and advice! I am looking to buy in the countries listed, want to start the journey in Sweden that year. We need to practice with the boat a few years before, sail to Norway, Scotland perhaps etc.

I really like this boat:
HR 352!


To get the budget right we might have to go for a 35 feet rather having an extra cabin in a 42 feet boat.
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Old 24-01-2015, 06:33   #19
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Re: Finding the monohull family cruiser for ARC 2019

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Some more information would be helpful regarding your cruising plans, such as what happens before the Atlantic crossing and after? Are you planning on continuing to the pacific, Australia or around the world or just spending a few months in the Caribbean then back to Europe. A lot of Europeans cross with the arc then find they haven't got a real plan on how to return to Europe and many don't have the desire for the more difficult return trip and look at options such as shipping the boat, delivery skippers or selling in the Caribbean. Ongoing plans would drastically effect my purchase choice. Ie. if I planned to sell I would be looking for a non VAT paid vessel, probably new with the prospect of selling it and not losing the additional 20% on the purchase. This will also work well if you are headed to Australia. Thee are export schemes in Europe whereby you can also pay a reduced vat, but as I said it will depend on your plans for the boat before and after the arc. The Atlantic crossing is only a few weeks sailing.
Cheers. We are going to be away a year. We are walking in other's footsteps here, it seems common to leave Sweden in the summer, sail through the Kiel canal, via the English Channel, some choose the Caledonian canal, more interesting views, but we might do a practice trip to the Caledonian canal a year or two before we leave, or buy the boat in Ireland, and take that route home, trying to fit that trip into 5-6 weeks of summer vacation (could maybe leave her on the West Coast of Sweden).

Anyway, when sailing ARC, people seem to start off like I wrote, then sail across Biscaya to Coruna, sail down the Portuguese coast and head for the Canaries and all arrive well before the ARC start in November. Celebrate Christmas in the Caribbean. Cruise around Islands of choice (lowest crime and nice I suppose). Will dive a lot. Drink some rum. Not sure about the home journey, it's on a higher latitude I think, arrive home next summer.

I would like to spend quite some time in Spain and Portugal. Great countries with awesome food and wine! Will buy lots of wine there before departing to the Canaries; I suppose wine is expensive in the Caribbean?
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Old 24-01-2015, 06:44   #20
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Re: Finding the monohull family cruiser for ARC 2019

Cheers Carsten. I might have to work more overtime, true. I found a HR 352 in Crosshaven, Cork.
Search new and used boats for sale - YachtWorld.com Mobile
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Old 24-01-2015, 07:51   #21
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Re: Finding the monohull family cruiser for ARC 2019

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Originally Posted by tob View Post
Cheers Carsten. I might have to work more overtime, true. I found a HR 352 in Crosshaven, Cork.
Search new and used boats for sale - YachtWorld.com Mobile
Tob

Looked at it and from the pics it has been a coastal cruiser. So you can start thinking the serios money that will be needed to outfit this for an ARC.

Not saying you can't sail it across "as is", but with 3 kids and crew this will be a very small boat. How much water tankage does it have? Battteries? No solar, no wind gen.

I notice it ahs a life raft but that is certianly a coastal raft so you'll need to buy an off-shore one.

You might also want to study the ARC webpage. They have some very specific demands as to what equipment your boat must have if you are going to be allowed to join.

On you limited budget - you will need to think that through very carefully.
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Old 24-01-2015, 09:52   #22
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Re: Finding the monohull family cruiser for ARC 2019

hi tob.

I have read your post above and several others you posted in other threads. I believe I understand your desire to own a boat and to cruise and to sail across the Atlantic. I have also looked at boats that may fit in your budget to purchase, but would not fit considering the need to refit to "ocean" cruising standards.

What follows is written in a friendly tone of voice with the intent to help. It may seem counter to your way of thinking, but I offer it as a friendly suggestion.

First, let's look at your goals that you have shared with us.

You want to:
1. Own a Boat
2. Sail and learn to sail that boat you own
3. Sail with your multiple young children
4. Cross the Atlantic
5. Cruise the Caribbean
______________

My Suggestion is in Two or possibly Three Steps:

1. Buy a smaller (less expensive) boat you can afford to sail in your home waters with NO intention to cross the Atlantic. Do NOT spend ALL of your boat budget on a refit of an older big Blue Water Cruising boat. I would spend as little as possible, in fact (less than half of your total budget). It does not have to be a Blue Water Boat, it could be a coastal cruiser or even a nice large daysailer. It can be optimized for your local wind/water conditions. It can be a boat your children love and inherit. It could be a daysailer that is stylish or classy (e.g. wood Folk Boat). It could be an old classic woody that you restore or not. It could be a fast sport boat. It could come with minimal equipment and minimal need to spend a lot of money to enjoy it. It places MUCH LESS financial pressure on you to purchase and refit it, and is less costly to own and maintain over the time you own it. If you sell it, you don't lose much.

2. Take the money you save in Step One (€30K+). Then charter a boat or boats(!) in the Caribbean or Med or both! Take the kids (who love sailing because they sail your inexpensive boat in home waters) with you. They will appreciate the nice bigger newer boat and you will have less pressure for their safety (crossing an ocean). Your wife will enjoy it if you charter a newish catamaran. Everyone is happy. You fly back to Sweden, tanned, relaxed, and without the stress of sailing back West to East.

3. If YOU must "cross an ocean" because you have dreamed of it, or as a "right of passage" then do it without the kids. Join another boat as crew in a future ARC. Less cost. Less risk to family. Have them fly to Caribbean to welcome you at the end of "your ocean crossing." Have fun with them on the boat you charter (see step 2 above).
_______________

That is what I would do if I were in your boat shoes.
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Old 24-01-2015, 10:35   #23
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Re: Finding the monohull family cruiser for ARC 2019

Ok point taken. I have a boat today. Albin Ballad. I could maybe get 5000 EUR, low estimate, for it. We like the Maxi 108.
http://www.tocha.se/maxi108/
Better choice than HR 352 perhaps, on extra berth in the companionway towards the aft cabin. This is also about taking a sabbatical year and it's probably good for the kids, considering the crap values they get from TV, school and the Western society. I am not alone wanting this, wife wants it to and knows a great deal about boating.

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Old 24-01-2015, 12:53   #24
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Re: Finding the monohull family cruiser for ARC 2019

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Originally Posted by tob View Post
Ok point taken. I have a boat today. Albin Ballad. I could maybe get 5000 EUR, low estimate, for it. We like the Maxi 108.
Maxi 108 – skärgårdens pärla
Better choice than HR 352 perhaps, on extra berth in the companionway towards the aft cabin. This is also about taking a sabbatical year and it's probably good for the kids, considering the crap values they get from TV, school and the Western society. I am not alone wanting this, wife wants it to and knows a great deal about boating.

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Something like this Jeanneau Selection 37 could be a good option
Jeanneau Selection 37 Racer/Cruiser | Stockholm
This one is pretty cheap and has had a lot of upgrades in the past few years.

Jeanneau Selection 37 - Sailguide.com
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Old 24-01-2015, 13:27   #25
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Re: Finding the monohull family cruiser for ARC 2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
hi tob.

I have read your post above and several others you posted in other threads. I believe I understand your desire to own a boat and to cruise and to sail across the Atlantic. I have also looked at boats that may fit in your budget to purchase, but would not fit considering the need to refit to "ocean" cruising standards.

What follows is written in a friendly tone of voice with the intent to help. It may seem counter to your way of thinking, but I offer it as a friendly suggestion.

First, let's look at your goals that you have shared with us.

You want to:
1. Own a Boat
2. Sail and learn to sail that boat you own
3. Sail with your multiple young children
4. Cross the Atlantic
5. Cruise the Caribbean
______________

My Suggestion is in Two or possibly Three Steps:

1. Buy a smaller (less expensive) boat you can afford to sail in your home waters with NO intention to cross the Atlantic. Do NOT spend ALL of your boat budget on a refit of an older big Blue Water Cruising boat. I would spend as little as possible, in fact (less than half of your total budget). It does not have to be a Blue Water Boat, it could be a coastal cruiser or even a nice large daysailer. It can be optimized for your local wind/water conditions. It can be a boat your children love and inherit. It could be a daysailer that is stylish or classy (e.g. wood Folk Boat). It could be an old classic woody that you restore or not. It could be a fast sport boat. It could come with minimal equipment and minimal need to spend a lot of money to enjoy it. It places MUCH LESS financial pressure on you to purchase and refit it, and is less costly to own and maintain over the time you own it. If you sell it, you don't lose much.

2. Take the money you save in Step One (€30K+). Then charter a boat or boats(!) in the Caribbean or Med or both! Take the kids (who love sailing because they sail your inexpensive boat in home waters) with you. They will appreciate the nice bigger newer boat and you will have less pressure for their safety (crossing an ocean). Your wife will enjoy it if you charter a newish catamaran. Everyone is happy. You fly back to Sweden, tanned, relaxed, and without the stress of sailing back West to East.

3. If YOU must "cross an ocean" because you have dreamed of it, or as a "right of passage" then do it without the kids. Join another boat as crew in a future ARC. Less cost. Less risk to family. Have them fly to Caribbean to welcome you at the end of "your ocean crossing." Have fun with them on the boat you charter (see step 2 above).
_______________

That is what I would do if I were in your boat shoes.
Sensible advise I would say. Buying an old boat for that budget, even one that when new had not problems to do that crossing, will not be enough. You have to refit it for the job and that would not be easy and I don't believe you can do it with that budget.

Sometimes there are young couples that take a break in their lives to make a circumnavigation and sell the boat at the end. Sometimes the boats are old but have been conveniently prepared and refitted. Try to have an eye on those boats but your budget is probably too tight, specially considering you want to take the kids and that means a bigger boat.
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Old 24-01-2015, 15:49   #26
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Re: Finding the monohull family cruiser for ARC 2019

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Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
Something like this Jeanneau Selection 37 could be a good option
Jeanneau Selection 37 Racer/Cruiser | Stockholm
This one is pretty cheap and has had a lot of upgrades in the past few years.

Jeanneau Selection 37 - Sailguide.com
The Jeanneau - it's realistic alright. This boat makes sense, it says it's light at sailguide.com. Say we have bad luck and end up in a storm in the middle of the Atlantic. We'll try to get out of there but for a while we have to battle the weather. How to sail this boat, have minimum sail, a 25 degrees angle to the huge waves going into our out of the wind. Would the procedure differ much from how you would sail an Allegro 33 in that scenario, please?
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Old 25-01-2015, 03:02   #27
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Re: Finding the monohull family cruiser for ARC 2019

And I think I will charter our current boat instead of selling it, will be more money in two years only than selling it. So maybe such a Jeanneau will sell for 200000 SEK in two years. Still lots of upgrades need to be done, SSB radio, secure mast more etc.
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Old 25-01-2015, 04:31   #28
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Re: Finding the monohull family cruiser for ARC 2019

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The Jeanneau - it's realistic alright. This boat makes sense, it says it's light at sailguide.com. Say we have bad luck and end up in a storm in the middle of the Atlantic. We'll try to get out of there but for a while we have to battle the weather. How to sail this boat, have minimum sail, a 25 degrees angle to the huge waves going into our out of the wind. Would the procedure differ much from how you would sail an Allegro 33 in that scenario, please?
This is a very lightweight boat- Too light for my taste (and I have a relativel light boat). I looked but couldn't find any information about water tankage - but I'll bet it is way too smal (probably only 150 liters) The diesel tank is tiny (40 liters) which means you will be carrying a lot of jerry cans on deck.
You'd be a lot better off with something like this

64,000 euros - but a Baltic will make it across and this one seems to be well equipped.

Baltic 39, 1980, Pris EUR 64.000, Brugt Sejlb?d/Sejlb?de S?lges, In verkoophaven Holland
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