Ferro Cement Hulls ?

[perchance]

That's not a yacht that's a little ship. The only thing I can comment on is the engine room. It looks loved, so I hopefully the other systems are done with the same care and attention. I hope you will Blog about your adventure.

[Gorbachov]

Perchance,

I’ve always felt I was inaccurately describing it when calling it a boat. I think little ship is maybe a better definition. It’s sort of like trying to figure at what point a creek becomes a river.

It’s current classification is a "S" small passenger vessel under the United States Code of Federal Regulations Sub-Chapter T for 49 passengers requiring a crew of 4 one of whom must be a 100-ton Licensed Captain endorsed by experience noted on his license for the waters being served. The 3 service routes are 1) Lakes Bays and Sounds, 2) 20 nautical miles near coastal service, and 3) unrestricted exposed open ocean service.

It’s my understanding this is the highest stability endorsement permitted and all three are permitted in this vessels stability letter that is posted in the cabin. I feel like I’m putting a champion race horse in a carnival ride by using it as a weekend getaway / dock queen.

I agree with you about the engine room. The seller is the original builder and has been in the yacht building business all his adult life. He owns two yacht manufacturing facilities, one on the US west coast and the other in Thailand. His facilities are immaculate. Not a tool out of place or a spec of dust anywhere.

He is very proud of this vessel and you can see a gleam in his eyes when he talks about it. His wife and two children lived on it for 20 years and raised their kids onboard as they traveled the world in it.

I’m hoping I’ve found a diamond in the rough…we’ll see!

[Boracay]

From memory Richard Hartley said that those small pockets of rust were the result of part of the reinforcing (ties?) being too close to the surface of the cement.

His comment, from ancient memory, was that they were not a major concern.

Ask the seller. He probably knows more about the boat than all of us put together.

[Gorbachov]

Boracay,

From my reading in this thread and other sources, it sounds like most of this is fixable by someone that’s good with their hands once the boat is out of the water and the hull is pressure washed and cleaned. That definitely describes me! The tools appear to be hardware store items or rentable. The material is two part epoxy based resins that are formulated to bond extremely well to cement and I've worked a lot with catalyzed resins.

Not to over simplify it but I haven’t read anything yet that scares me away unless there are major structural problems, which I’m certain will be found by a surveyor that truly understands FC construction. Reading this thread over and over along with some good books on the subject has given me a very different opinion of FC.

Three years ago when I started looking at boats to buy I wouldn’t even consider FC. In fact I spotted this boat at its mooring while my wife and I were on a Sunday drive. I didn’t know it was FC till onboard with the owner and he told me. Its lines, size and potential for a project, which is what I was looking for just sucked me in. I’ve not found anything else that meets all this criteria.

You’re right about the owner. He seems to be very forthright and actually wants to help me with any repairs on the hull, advise me on surface preparation, and application of the right coatings once it’s out of the water. We email each other back and forth from his yacht building facility in Thailand and he’s volunteered to schedule his next trip back to the states to spend time working with me on the boat. I think he’s attached to it like one of his children.

[ozskip]

I would not recommend one as a purchase/go cruising now option.

You are kidding right

[cooper]

Yes...unless its rediculous (and you will know that) ferro is fixable. Old boats are just that. Old boats. They all have their problems and solutions.
I have a ferro boat ..and have had for a long time.
It is a very old ferro boat. It can now go on the historic boat register.
They are not bad boats....they are differant boats.
They are usualy very easy to fix......WAY easier than timber.
PM me if you have a specific question.(s)
OZskip..gippsland lakes...pm me : ) home turf and I am curious.

[Gorbachov]

I’m new to this and almost embarrassed to express my opinions here. I have spent over three years looking at potential boats to buy and as a total novice I have obviously taken my time. It is interesting to read the comments in this post as to why or why not to buy a ferro cement boat. I personally have settled on one for all the following reasons.

Cement was first used on a large scale by the Romans. Many excellent examples are still standing, notably the huge monolithic dome of the Pantheon in Rome and the massive Baths of Caracalla. The vast system of Roman aqueducts also made extensive use of hydraulic cement and large portions of this are still standing.

The fact that wood floats does not necessarily make it good boat building material. Unattended it rots. Unattended steel rusts and aluminum oxidizes, eventually thinning the hulls in both materials requiring extensive repairs. The surfaces of fiberglass will UV depredate and prolonged saturation with water breaks down the bond between the glass reinforcing and the resin binders.

I don't think there is a perfect hull material; they all need attention and maintenance. An unmaintained ferro cement boat has the potential for moisture getting into the hull interior and rusting the steel reinforcing. A poorly built boat no mater what the material is a disaster waiting to happen. A catastrophic breech in a hull requires the same solution no mater what the material.

There is an 8 to 10 acre boatyard I’ve frequented looking for my future project / weekend live aboard, with vessels from 25’ to 100’ up on blocks with stanchions. These boats were all built with wood, steel, aluminum and fiberglass somewhere between the 1930’s and 1980’s. Ninety-five percent of these are so derelict they will never get wet again other than from rain.

Some of the wood and fiberglass ones have sections I can punch my fist through. A major portion of the steel and aluminum hulled ones look like patchwork quilts below the waterlines where material has been welded over rusted or oxidized thin spots, cracks and or breeches in the hulls. For some unexplained reason there is not one ferro cement boat in the yard.

The only one in sight of this yard is the one I’m negotiating the purchase of. It is moored in the water at the pier running off the same parking lot servicing the boatyard seen in the following picture from the parking lot. I don’t believe the reason the only boat seen in the water from this boatyard is ferro cement is because all the others sunk before they arrived.



I think it is all a matter of preference and economics. From what I read these boats are amazingly stable in the roughest waters, the same price to maintain or possibly cheaper, easier to do hull repairs and less expensive to purchase because of their perceived value. I would need to read through this thread again, but I don’t think there is a post by an owner who doesn’t love their boat.

One of the criteria in my search in addition to a great project has been a boat that can comfortably house my entire family for the weekend, which includes my wife, five adult children and four grandchildren. One of the boats I considered some time ago was the one pictured below. It is steel hulled, about the same length and requires much more work.





I don’t know what has happened to this boat but at the time the owner was stuck on a selling price of $100K US. I don’t think I’m underestimating this by doing all the work myself, but I believe for around half that amount I can purchase the ferro cement boat I’m negotiating on, complete the interior upgrades, the exterior hull maintenance and cabin repairs.

I apologize for thinking I’ve arrived at the point where I can express these opinions having not owned a ferro cement boat. But, the only thing I can say about other hull materials from what I’ve seen and read is better resale. I don’t consider any boat a good investment. It is a luxury that just continues to cost money with no return other than pleasure.

[Wand]

Originally Posted by Gorbachov

I don’t consider any boat a good investment. It is a luxury that just continues to cost money with no return other than pleasure.

There can be no better return on money than pleasure. Allabest

[Gorbachov]

Originally Posted by At sea

There can be no better return on money than pleasure. Allabest

Hear, hear!

[smallyachts]

I look forward to following your project.

We'll be rooting for you!

The crew @

[Gorbachov]

Thank You!

If you read back on some of my earliest posts you’ll see I originally came in here asking what the value was of this boat. I could write a book on responses as to why or why not to even consider FC. It can become a very opinionated and heated debate at times. I sifted through the naysayers that didn’t or hadn’t owned an FC boat and got to a core group that absolutely swore by them. I see on your website you have a link to Reid Stowe’s “1000 Days At Sea”. I don’t know how anyone could read this story and not become a believer.

You’ll see in one of my posts the owner and I have agreed that an acceptable offer would be the value of the drive train alone. After several years of boat forums asking many questions, a lot of reading, plus working with a regional Detroit Diesel distributor and industrial marine supply and repair company, I believe I have arrived at a reasonable price on the engines and drive train given the age, hours and future lifespan before rebuild. I’m comfortable I have a real market number I can finally begin negotiations from on the purchase.

I’ll keep you posted!

[Mark1977]

Yes keep us posted. And good for you for doing your homework and making a sensible choice.

[Pete7]

Yes, please do.

As a general question to the forum, how thick is a ferro cement hull say on a 40 foot yacht? Just curious.

Pete

[Mark1977]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Yes, please do.

As a general question to the forum, how thick is a ferro cement hull say on a 40 foot yacht? Just curious.

Pete

Mine is a little over an inch thick.

[wolfaroo]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Yes, please do.

As a general question to the forum, how thick is a ferro cement hull say on a 40 foot yacht? Just curious.

Pete

Hi Pete,

The thickness of the hull on a Hartley 39 is around 5/8".

Cheers,
Neal