Comparing Suitable Yachts for Family Ocean-Going

[mischief]

Hi I have another post going What Yacht to Ocean Go for 4 on a Budget?
I have come up with a few yachts to compare that I think might meet our criteria. I would like to get peoples feed back on how some stack up against eachother. If you feel something else is comparible please chime in. For more insight to what we are after please follow the above link (I hope I did it correct).

Basic parameters.
Priority in order of preferances;

yacht obatained in Australia, Tasmania, New Zealand, other.

A seagoing yachts that are known for thier seakeeping and ocean going capabilties.

Cutter or sloop prefered

Tend to be set up for cruising and come well equipped (some designes tend to be more set up then others just because of the demographic of buyers for that yacht)

Strong keel and rudder configuration

Handle well in a blow, big seas, heavy weather, and a following sea. (safety is priority and even if it aint comfortable when its all hitting the fan is fine as long as its safe)

Sleep 4 long term so probably not smaller than 30' but I suppose if it was a really sapcious "X?" size we would have a look.

Preferably under $40K AUD sail away no more than $50K AUD including repairs needed.


Here is what we are looking at so far...

Compass built H28 (30') -VS- Nicholson 32

Out of these two which is better and why? Also anything else comparable?

Thank you

[Hurricane Harry]

Check this one out, great built boat, I have sailed them since 1980. Fast for a longkeeled boat hullspeed at 7,5 knots, doubleender, very very sturdy will take lots of wind and seas. Many have circumnavigated. This one have been for sale for a while. The correct price should be around 60000 ausdolla with an old engine like this have.
Make them an offer they cant refuse.Allegro 33 for Sale @ Australiawide Boat Sales Good luck. /Harry

[meyermm]

Having owned a H28 this is my opinion. To cruise the world with wife and children? I suggest you become a comedian, you will be a success and it will allow you to buy the boat of your dreams. "Mischief" I think is just having a laugh!!!

[mischief]

Please lets keep on topic, I dont think I have said cruise the world anywhere on my post. At the moment I am only interested in coastal cruising and short passages at first. What I did say in my other thread is "Im interested in yachts that are known for being capable of circumnavigating" thats because such yachts are usually solid built with good sailing charachteristics. We wil also be living on it for the next while progressively cruising more and more. If it proves too small for finally cutting the lines free then we will look to upgrade (let us worry about that)

When I put the post up I did not want to be bombarded with suggestions of yachts that were leaning toward the comfort side over the safety side thus I worded the post the way I did.

Sometimes when we try to read beween the lines in haste we are mistaken.

So no I am not having a laugh and yes it is possible to do what we want.

We will worry about whats possible, what decisions to make etc. Should I need advice for that I assure you I will ask. For the moment I am just looking for advice on yacht selection and comparisons.

thanks

[Barquero]

Hi Mischief, I sent you a PM suggesting NZ Compass H28's before I saw this other post of yours.

When we (family of 4) bought our NZ Compass H28 we also looked at a Nicholson 32. We went for the H28 based on the liveability compared to the Nicholson. We felt the H28 had a much better layout, more light down below, a more roomy feel and a better sized cockpit (this was important with our then 3 month old and 3 year old and has continued to be so). The Nicholson seemed to have an excellent reputation as a safe ocean going vessel, as does the H28. Both were priced in the high $40K's.

Couple the above with the H28's excellent sea keeping ability and you have a great boat. We now have two kids under 6 and continue to get great use from our Compass H28 and have never regretted our purchase. I think we may have bought our boat with very similar drivers and philosophy to yourselves, from what you have written.

All the very best.

[Hurricane Harry]

Sorry for misunderstanding your post mischief. No harm meant./ Harry

[mischief]

Hi Barquero, thanks for the repons I Pmed you back. Compass built H28 seems to be the top pick for now...

Harry, thanks for the response. Absolutely no worries mate! No harm at all

[barnakiel]

H28 too small for 4. Seaworthy ? Can a 30 y.o. boat be seaworthy without spending $$$ on her? Can you store water / provisions / stuff for 4 for an ocean passage and still claim the boat 'seaworthy'? Doubt it. (Well maybe a Westsnail 28, but they are pigs)

4 people will probably need a 32+ footer

Having an Allegro myself I would confirm what Harry says - Allegro 33 may be a good option (if sound), unless too expensive.

b.

[mischief]

Hi barnakiel, thanks for the second vote for Allegro 33's.
I would say though about size that I guess it depends on a few things before
we could dismiss an H28 as too small to be seaworthy for an Ocean Passage.
Such as, how long is the passage and what is the weather window like and how much contingency time are you provisioning for? I will say that when my buddy and I go on Alpine expeditions we pracice light is right and balance up safety and simplicity. The reason I am saying this is not about speed of the yacht VS safety but rather we each can carry enough provisions in our Alpine packs to sustain ourselves for weeks. When we Were Climbing in the Cordillia Blanca (Peruvian Andes) we only used 3 porters 5 humping gear, back up gear, base camp supplies, Advanced camp supplies, plus everything we would need for the expedtion to sustain and or deal with any crises for 3 persons for up to 3 weeks. All with one load each.

The moral of the story is you would be suprised with a bit of ingenuity how small and simple you could pack to provide provisions. Of course the longer the passage possibly the more suffering one would endure simply due to the provisioning to make it work.
Just my opinion

[surfingminniwinni]

Jen & I looked at the Allegro 33 Reunion. A nice boat, but not exactly what we were looking for. Looks like its sold!!!!

[meyermm]

mischief - Reading your posts I know realise what the problem is, us that is the people inputting. I think the only mistake you have made is asking others for advice when you already know more than all of us combined.

[Eleven]

1. How far do you reckon to get in a three day weather window.
2. How many forecasts are actually reasonable for three days.
3. It's got to be able to do heavy weather.
4. You've got to be able to do heavy weather without you calling for help.
5. The chance of getting help in heavy weather reduces considerably. Go back to 3.
6. Stores have to provide half as much again as the passage plan.
7. Add another half when there are no diversion options. See thread on jammed rudder.
8. This is meant to be positive. Planning prevents problems.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by mischief

... a few things before
we could dismiss an H28 as too small to be seaworthy for an Ocean Passage ...

Yes, I believe a H28 is too small for 4 people, safe ocean passage and then also one meant for cruising (after an ocean passage your cruising is in remote areas which has some consequences for the crew and the boat).

It is just that we have different ideas of what makes an 'ocean passage', 'safe ocean passage', or 'seaworthiness'. Mine comes from 6 years of cruising and crossing all oceans (some of them a couple of times), in a 26 footer.

I like H28 a lot (I sailed them while in NZ - Compass made), but I could only recommend it for the crew of 2, pretty desperate ones, and even then after some mods and a very serious re-fit and some serious upgrades (all the H28 I have seen were pretty old boats).

I do not think there is much relationship between mountain climbing the 'alpine style' and crossing oceans / crusing. True - both are beautiful pastimes. However, ocean passages and cruising call for so much stuff to be dragged along - water, provisions, fuel, spare sails, spares, anchors, anchor chain, personal belongings, charts, pilots, mathoms... and so on and so forth.

I say: it can be done in an H28, but going for a slightly bigger boat can make much difference.Cheers mate,
b.

[mischief]

Originally Posted by meyermm

mischief - Reading your posts I know realise what the problem is, us that is the people inputting. I think the only mistake you have made is asking others for advice when you already know more than all of us combined.

Its not that at all. I very much apreciate peoples advice and opinion on yacht comparison. However I dont think this is the thread for a debate as to whether of not it's possible to cruise or make a passage with 4 on an H28.

I also have a pretty good idea of what we can live with so I am more interested in the yacht aspect if that makes sence.

I would have prefered to have just asked specifically about the yachts with in the parameters Im looking for, but I would have got, all the questions about how many people we are, what are plans are what we want to acompish etc. before we would get some answers which is understandable, thus I included the information straight away.

I know I am not easy when it comes to purchases of anything. Usually because I have done enough legwork before hand to know what I actually want then I set out to find what matches, thats not always an easy task. But I will tell you I have never made a purchase I have regreated.

So What Im asking is for peoples advice on the comparison of yachts so that I can process the info research the yachts and decide if it will meet our needs, I dont need someone to make the decision for us but rather provide options so we can make our own decision.

I hope that makes sence and that I have not come off as thinking I know everything as that is not my intent.

[mischief]

Originally Posted by Eleven

1. How far do you reckon to get in a three day weather window.
2. How many forecasts are actually reasonable for three days.
3. It's got to be able to do heavy weather.
4. You've got to be able to do heavy weather without you calling for help.
5. The chance of getting help in heavy weather reduces considerably. Go back to 3.
6. Stores have to provide half as much again as the passage plan.
7. Add another half when there are no diversion options. See thread on jammed rudder.
8. This is meant to be positive. Planning prevents problems.

Hi Eleven, Im not sure I understand where you got the 3 day limit?
I assume you may have misread when I said we carried provisions In one load for 3 weeks? I should also mention that means there are emergency provisions for a further 3 weeks by rations if we were snowed in at advanced base camp.

As for the rest I agree I should think though that the H28 is capable of heavy weather.

So I guess that leaves is she big enough for stores? Well she has to be, but how much stores can she fit? and are there any other yachts within our perameters to compare with say the N32? Which can store more and so forth. Thats really what I am after here is comparisons so we can look at the pros and cons of each yacht and decide.

BTW just because I said I want a yacht capable of passages etc does not mean we are wanting to sail an H28 to Canada. However if we are looking at yachts further away like USA then yes we would want it to be able to sail back here. An H28 Ony has to have enough room and be safe to sail back from NZ or Tassie. Since more than a couple have circumnavigated I would say its a fair ssumption to say they can.

I hope this clears things up a bit so we can concentrate on comparing yachts.