Buying used

[Rick004]

Hello ! I live in Ottawa Canada and hope to purchase a sailboat in the next few years so I'm doing the research now. !! I would like to moor a sailboat in Cuba year round but stay there maybe 4 months of the year when I retire . What would be more cost effective to purchase a boat locally and sail it there or purchase a boat in Florida or nearby and sail from there. ? The rest of the year I would rent the boat to friends or family to offset the cost of docking it ! Thanks. !


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[Cheechako]

Well....... Florida should be a lot easier, Navigating from Canada to FL is a big trip in itself. The weather is a lot better for preparing your boat in FL also. Parts are cheaper in the US I understand. Be sure your boat is in good shape before you go to Cuba so you don't have to try to import stuff once there.

[Rick004]

Thanks for the info !! I had another post where I asked if a canadian purchased a boat in the states does it stay a US boat or does it become canadian when you transfer ownership ? And if not can I sail a US purchased sailboat over to Cuba ?


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[gunkylump]

There's no West Marine, Defender...etc. in Cuba. And to sail from Canada to Cuba would be a pretty big adventure....but very do-able. I would think it easier to purchase in the U.S., register federally in Canada, takes 8 to 10 weeks at present, and sail over to Cuba from say Florida.

Have you searched to see if you can bring in parts to Cuba from outside the country? Researched insurance requirements? Lots to look at here, do-able, but lots to look at.

There are a ton of good boats all along the eastern seaboard, and a ton of working yards to work on them.

gunk

[hellosailor]

There are different forms of title/flagging a boat in the US. US federal documentation, which gives the boat a US flag, is available ONLY to US citizens. If you buy the boat, it loses that status immediately. Your choices would be to register the boat under a state registration, which usually requires a state residency address, or to Canadian register/flag it in your home province.

Registering the boat in Florida would create problems. First, because you have to establish a bogus residence there (easily done) and second because a state registered boat might be denied entry in other nations, as it is not nationally flagged. It would also create problems with the USCG who would remind you that US citizens and vessels are subject to the terms of the US embargo with Cuba. Odds are good you'd be turned back and questioned, in depth, or worse.

So pay the piper, register and title it in your home province and then you can buy it, get it out of Florida (within 90 days of the purchase or else you'll pay about a 6% sales tax as well) and enjoy Cuba's plans for the future, which apparently include a massive expansion of boating facilities, according to their press releases.

[Rick004]

Thanks Hellosailor !! I've been to the Marina in Varadero often ( Darsena) it's very nice full facilities , extremely secure !! It's across the canal from Sl Capones mansion which is a restaurant now ! The new Marina ( Gaviota) is simply amazing !!! It has condos , theatre , boutiques , scuba services , it's still in the finishing stages but there seems to be boats docked and the stores are open. !


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[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

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Registering the boat in Florida would create problems. First, because you have to establish a bogus residence there (easily done) and second because a state registered boat might be denied entry in other nations, as it is not nationally flagged..

Is there any restriction for a Florida registered boat to go to Cuba? I don't think there is but don't really have any idea (wonder who owns the airline planes that fly there). Far as a State registered boat cruising I've read blogs of many who have traveled all over with only State registration without a problem.

So I wouldn't give up on this approach if I were the OP.

BTW - if a boat is registered in canada and stays in Florida does that mean that Florida can not require you to State regrister it? (I don't know)

[nautical62]

I don't live in Florida, but registered a boat I purchased there without any problem, using my out of state address. In fact, I believe their attitude is that if a boat is in Florida water for 90 days or more, it should be registered there regardless of where the owner is from. They like their registration fees and were happy to take mine.

I also know the broker I purchased the boat through said that if the boat was to leave the state within a certain amount of time (which may have been the same 90 days), then I would not have to pay either Florida sales tax or register it in Florida. (I have not verified that elsewhere. Since I knew my boat would be in Florida for a year before taking it to the Bahamas, I paid the tax and Florida registration.)

[JPA Cate]

What you are proposing, renting out your boat to friends, etc. is basically a charter business. Have you investigated the legality of this in Cuba? Do you speak Spanish well? Is there a good hurricane harbor, and would you trust a mooring there?
Lots of questions......

Things to consider.

Ann

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Rick004

Hello ! I live in Ottawa Canada and hope to purchase a sailboat in the next few years so I'm doing the research now. !! I would like to moor a sailboat in Cuba year round but stay there maybe 4 months of the year when I retire . What would be more cost effective to purchase a boat locally and sail it there or purchase a boat in Florida or nearby and sail from there. ? The rest of the year I would rent the boat to friends or family to offset the cost of docking it ! Thanks. !


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Consider the opportunity to buy a Great Lakes vessel with no salt exposure and probably 3 months of weekends per year & only in good weather.

[Rick004]

I would only let family and close friends use the boat , I'm French , which helps with the Spanish and I've been taking lessons here and there ! Marina Darsena is well protected it's a ways into the grand canal it's not on the open ocean ! This is a long term project , I don't plan on purchasing a boat for at least another 4 years which gives me a big window to research sailboats , learn to sail , legalities , etc !! I really appreciate everyone's input there is a lot of experience and knowledge on this site !!!


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[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by nautical62

I don't live in Florida, but registered a boat I purchased there without any problem, using my out of state address. In fact, I believe their attitude is that if a boat is in Florida water for 90 days or more, it should be registered there regardless of where the owner is from. They like their registration fees and were happy to take mine.

I also know the broker I purchased the boat through said that if the boat was to leave the state within a certain amount of time (which may have been the same 90 days), then I would not have to pay either Florida sales tax or register it in Florida. (I have not verified that elsewhere. Since I knew my boat would be in Florida for a year before taking it to the Bahamas, I paid the tax and Florida registration.)

This is weird... I bought a boat in FL 4 years ago, decided to leave it there and I had to have a FL address to register it. Fortunately I had one I could use.... Maybe it depends on the official you meet or the county.
Re: Canadian owned boat, if you leave your boat there or are there more than a few months, you can dry store it and it is my understanding you wont be asked to register it.

[hellosailor]

62-
As the recently appointed (2 years ago?) Archbishop of Miami said, with guffaws of laughter coming back to him, "It is so nice to be appointed to a diocese that is so close to the United States".
Florida is one of the many states that are just different from the norm. Way different. The state of Florida allows all government agencies to set their own separate and conflicting definitions of residency, for their own purposes. So your local county tax assessor can say "Residency" qualifies you for a homesteading discount, but your butt has to be in that bed 183 days every year. They may not accept you Florida driver's license as proof of residency, because that's a different agency with different rules!

Up to about 3? 4? years ago Florida also issued "snowbird" licenses, a duplicate driver's license good only in Florida state. No more, they upgraded to "DHS SecureID" standards. Times are changing, and the concept of "I live in a small box in the wall..." I still being accepted by their DMV, but I wouldn't bet on it being accepted ten years from now. You just never know, when something is built on a convenient fiction.

Take a car into Florida and if you just got a job there, you have ten days in which to transfer the title and registration into Florida as well. With a triple-digit title fee.

Take your out of state BOAT into Florida? And you have 90 days of grace, and then you can buy a "duplicate" registration, required in Florida, without needing to transfer or void anything else. This stuff just begs for lawsuits on the "arbitrary and capricious" issues.

I don't say they are wrong, I just say it is a peculiar logic that probably can't be defended if anyone takes them to task.

[avb3]

I'm Canadian who has a condo in Florida, and therefore a Florida address. When I bought my boat last year, I needed to pay state tax on it. Florida has a rather unique system, which they expound on on their website, that if you buy through a broker, you pay tax on everything included in the deal. If you buy privately, you can break it down into two bills of sale, one of them for the boat itself, the second for all the accessories. It can substantially reduce your sales tax payable.

I have a Florida registration on the boat currently. I will need that regardless if it is in the water more than 90 days in Florida, which it will be. However, due to travelling offshore, I am seriously considering registering it as a Canadian vessel. No Canadian tax is payable unless I bring it into Canada, which I have no intention of doing.

I'm still deciding which way I will go in the future.

[hellosailor]

avb-
It isn't unique to Florida, or restricted to private sales. It should be legal in every state to split the sale into "personal goods" versus "the boat" but in order to ensure that is done legally and properly, the "personal effects" etc. should physically be unloaded from the boat, put in a pile, and the boat sold separately, stripped.

The problem with doing this when a broker is involved, is that whatever goods you separate from the boat, will reduce his commission because the sale price has been reduced. Aha, right, that's why a broker might not want to even go there.

But if you and the seller take it between yourselves to make sure the broker gets a little envelope for his commission loss on the goods, he should have no problem letting it go that way.

And of course, the tax men will still compare your sale price to book price, you can't just strip out the dishes and claim the boat is worth $5000 less. Unless you've got some really nice dishes.(G)