Boat Poll II - Hull Material

[James S]

Originally Posted by David M

unless you prefer an unpainted aluminum hull....which to me are unattractive.

Truer words never spoken David!

[sneuman]

All things being equal, FRP wins hands down, though I'm intrigued by aluminum. With 100% assurances of no rot/rust, it could be wood or steel, respectively.

Pound for pound and on a cost-benefit ratio, glass is pretty much impossible to beat, IMHO.

[bangkaboat]

Personally, first choices would be steel or aluminum, then, fibreglass.

[Amapola]

Fiberglass

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by David M

(...) unpainted aluminum hull....which to me are unattractive.

OK.

But practical where you will go into harbours without marinas.

Sort of like on a working boat - you sail her and if there is a scratch then there is a scratch, no drama.

b.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Sailcat

Next Subject-Hull material
I've ruled out ferrocement.
I've accepted fiberglass.
I fantisize about wood.
Considered Aluminun for the scrap value.
Think steel would be too noisy, underway and at anchor.

A good hull can be made from all these materials, and a very bad hull can be made from all.

From a pure strength to weight engineering perspective, (carbon) composite and aluminum are the clear winners (look at aircraft and race cars).

Steel is strong as hell and will (properly speced and built) survive where other materials will not. We saw a french steel boat hit dead mid-ship by a ship at full speed - it took a huge V shaped dent in the hull but did not rupture or sink. FYI Steel, properly insulated is also NOT noisy.

In the USA fiberglass has the most acceptance and resale value, and you have many more choices on the used market - metal is much more accepted/valued in Europe where aluminum is generally perceived as the premier offshore cruising material.

Originally Posted by David M

Glass will also be the least amount of maintenance unless you prefer an unpainted aluminum hull....which to me are unattractive.

You know you can polish and wax bare aluminum and it looks terrific - like a silver paint job and no more work to then maintain than paint. This has been done in the past on some aluminum racing masts. But most get aluminum with one of the attractions being low maintenance so this sort of defeats the purpose.

[zeehag]

i knew some folks who had built their schooner of aluminum-- was bare with a painted stripe and junk rigging-- beautiful boat.
a sailing boat that actually goes sailing IS a work boat-- they had an awesome look and functional boat.

[mrohr]

Whoa! lets talk about strength here; many components to" strength",i.e. abrasion resistance (boat on a beach) steel and aluminum have a chance to survive bouncing off rocks and grinding on sand in an exposed shore and maintain hull integrity . Fiberglass in same situation and your time is limited.
Hitting sharp or large objects while bashing about in open water, steel is way "stronger" than even aluminum ( higher modulus of elasticity ) it will deform with no holes.Aluminum too will deform ,but more likely to tear and the welds are not as strong as the parent material ,in steel this is not the case.
Fiberglass falls way short here , but I hasten to state that I am not an engineer or a materials scientist and suspect there are other "strength" factors that I am missing or ignoring to keep this post short ,my intent is to stir trouble here and inspire those more knowledgeable to weigh in.
BTW I've owned all types except FC and recognize the many advantages of each material,love my FG hull and will probably never own anything else unless I win the lottery,in which a new aluminum custom with bikini clad crew and.......oh, never mind.
If you happen to win 2 lotteries you might try copper/nickel for a hull.
P.S. there is a mob figure up in Rhode Island that has won the state lottery three times. Some people just have all the luck.

[S/V Alchemy]

Steel will compensate for poor navigation, it's true.

Read "Ocean Navigator". Most of the tropical boats are F/G and most of the high latitude boats are metal.

The rest are the Pardeys ..ehehhehehh...

Point being that the type and range of your sailing have implications in hull material choice.

Roger on the copper-nickel hull...if I won a lottery, a hull that never needs topside paint or antifouling? Priceless!

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Steel is strong as hell and will (properly speced and built) survive where other materials will not.(...)

I agree with all your post, except that when build to the same strength point, aluminum construction is expected to be much lighter (so: faster and/or capable of carrying more load). When built to the same weight point, aluminum is expected to be way more stronger than steel.

As explained here:

"...An aluminum hull structure, built to the same standards, weighs roughly 35% to 45% less than the same hull in steel. As a result, if high strength is of the highest priority, the alloy boat can be built to the same structural weight as the steel vessel, and then be considerably stronger...."

Full article here:
Aluminum Strength vs Steel Strength

b.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I agree with all your post, except that when build to the same strength point, aluminum construction is expected to be much lighter (so: faster and/or capable of carrying more load). When built to the same weight point, aluminum is expected to be way more stronger than steel.

I have an aluminum hull. In terms of tensile/lb that's right but . . . it's a relatively soft material, and abrasion will chew it up way way before a steel hull - its even softer than an epoxy hull.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

Roger on the copper-nickel hull...if I won a lottery, a hull that never needs topside paint or antifouling? Priceless!

Actually I would go with a titanium hull! Need to fine some terrific welders though - or even better to get a huge block of Ti and then machine the boat out in one piece

[stevewrye]

Nice thing about the new aluminum boats coming out of Europe is they are using aluminum all out of the same smelting on the hulls so that it is all very similar.
Better against galvanic corrosion.

You can't go wrong with any of the different materials as long as they are well built, glass can get you anywhere.

[Sailcat]

Because of it's limited use in boat building, presumably due to inherent issues that keep it from being a practical material. No other reason than that. Thanks for responding and sorry for not doing same in a timely manner.

[bangkaboat]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

As explained here:

"...An aluminum hull structure, built to the same standards, weighs roughly 35% to 45% less than the same hull in steel. As a result, if high strength is of the highest priority, the alloy boat can be built to the same structural weight as the steel vessel, and then be considerably stronger...."

Full article here:
Aluminum Strength vs Steel Strength

b.

This applies to the shell plate & framing material choice - such as using 5/16" Al instead of 3/16" MS - but does not address weld joint strengths. Still, while I have a personal preference for steel as a building medium, aluminum has it's own advantages & I consider it on par with steel construction, over all.

If the OP has the bank account to even briefly consider Hinkleys, etc., I'd suggest considering a metal boat. As mentioned, a properly insulated metal boat is not noisy inside. For sailing in unknown waters, any well-built metal boat gives one an increased level of protection against groundings and collisions. As for aesthetics, most can not tell the difference between hull/deck mediums when the boat has a round or radiused bilge and radiused corners in deck/railings/ coachhouse/pilothouse/cockpit/etc. .