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Old 16-11-2012, 09:11   #16
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Re: Blue Water Survival

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
While this is a nice answer its not true

Most boats have no significant emergency large capacity flood pumps. Most are overwhelmed by any sort of large leak. Unless you find it fast and can slow the inflow, you'll loose the boat.

Most masts today are deck stepped, generally everything goes over. If you don't have a spare spinnaker or whisker pole, your not in much of a shape to rig a jury rig.

In many cases, today, it will a case of hitting the red button., for a lot of people. In previous times you just drowned.
OK, now I got the msg.

Yes, the answer is that what this person does is they push the button.

Lacking one, they will drift till found or beached, or else they perish.

In any case to maximise chances of survival one's water supply will count as it seems lack of water (potable water) kills up first.

In cold waters protection from the cold will be of paramount importance.

In tropics protection from the sun is equally essential.

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Old 16-11-2012, 10:57   #17
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Re: Blue Water Survival

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
While this is a nice answer its not true

Most masts today are deck stepped, generally everything goes over. If you don't have a spare spinnaker or whisker pole, your not in much of a shape to rig a jury rig.

In many cases, today, it will a case of hitting the red button., for a lot of people. In previous times you just drowned.
I was thinking the mast, boom, sails etc would be hanging along side the boat and may be retrieved and secured somehow so as not to damage the boat. When things calmed down a bit, you might be able to rig up the boom using the halyards for your jury rigged main like Robin Lee Graham did back in the day.
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Old 16-11-2012, 10:58   #18
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Re: Blue Water Survival

I stand corrected on the name of the Captain that abandoned his 31 foot twin keeler when it was still floating just slightly below its lines. I still remember the photo taken from the raft and thinking what the hell are you doing giving up so soon? This sinking came around the same time frame as the Robertson sinking and I believe they also wrote a book. Time fogs the memory a little. _____Grant.
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Old 16-11-2012, 11:20   #19
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Re: Blue Water Survival

THOMM225, You might want to try duct tape on wet surfaces before you count on it for saving a boat. There may be tapes that will stick to wet surfaces, but I dont think duct tape is one of them.____Grant.
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Old 16-11-2012, 11:37   #20
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Re: Blue Water Survival

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So. You say they took an old full keeler and one with an outboard too? ;-)

Many outboards have an alternator so I would start mine, if that's what there is. You need juice to run your pumps over any longer period.

If no inboard, then no shaft seal, then the only way water can get stealthily inside is around thru-hulls. If there was a bang there will be hole in the area of the bang.

I have to re-read the thread - I clearly fail to see where the challenge is. Not sure where a new guy differs from the old one - people are either smart or dumb, much as being required to be PC stops us from saying this.

I think any new guy has chances of survival as good as anybody else.

b.
Think of all the things new guy has to learn. He barely knows how to sail. He may not even be very aware of the stuffing boxes period. Are we forgetting the stuffing box for the rudder like my boat has? Maybe your boat doesn't have one.

My outboard doesn't have a alternator but I have a 75 watt solar panel soon to have a 200 watt panel. I have two 12 Volt batteries which would probably run the bilge pumps for quite awhile.

Maybe some folks have forgotten what it's like to be young and have a dream and just go for it like we see some folks speaking about on here.
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Old 16-11-2012, 11:41   #21
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Re: Blue Water Survival

Great thread op. As one of these newbies, I've done a lot of research and learning for heavy weather tactics, but certainly less so on emergency boat issues.
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Old 16-11-2012, 11:42   #22
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Re: Blue Water Survival

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THOMM225, You might want to try duct tape on wet surfaces before you count on it for saving a boat. There may be tapes that will stick to wet surfaces, but I dont think duct tape is one of them.____Grant.
well, the old man left tons of hose clamps onboard and I saved a few. I was planning to wrap the duct tape around a possible stuffing box leak kinda like a bandage or tourniquet then putting a hose clamp on each end. (and possibly the middle......as many as it took)
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Old 16-11-2012, 12:01   #23
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Re: Blue Water Survival

There is NO direct replacement for experience. That's why most prudent folks take baby steps before running, learn to drive F3 before F1, learn to fly in a trainer before an F22. Get my point? Start slow and go gradual so you can get the feel for things before heading off around Cape Horn...

After that it's a simple matter of stuffing your "black box" with knowledge that can be used to come up with creative fixes... It ain't rocket science, but if you've never searched for a leak in your hull in the middle of the night as the water rises above the cabin sole, it helps to know certain things work and others don't as you search to come up with a way to stem the flow...

you wrote: but for the new guy that comes online and plans to sail around the world after a few months learning to sail, dock, and anchor plus buying the boat he may not have planned for certain calamities.

I'd call that person very foolish and lucky if he doesn't get into trouble.
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Old 16-11-2012, 12:20   #24
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Re: Blue Water Survival

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There is NO direct replacement for experience. That's why most prudent folks take baby steps before running, learn to drive F3 before F1, learn to fly in a trainer before an F22. Get my point? Start slow and go gradual so you can get the feel for things before heading off around Cape Horn...

After that it's a simple matter of stuffing your "black box" with knowledge that can be used to come up with creative fixes... It ain't rocket science, but if you've never searched for a leak in your hull in the middle of the night as the water rises above the cabin sole, it helps to know certain things work and others don't as you search to come up with a way to stem the flow...

you wrote: but for the new guy that comes online and plans to sail around the world after a few months learning to sail, dock, and anchor plus buying the boat he may not have planned for certain calamities.

I'd call that person very foolish and lucky if he doesn't get into trouble.
BUT, we see it all the time. It seems like every other day someone posts something about what is the best blue water boat etc. Then adds, I'm about to sell everything and begin the cruising life. (and) I'm about to finish sailing school too and on top of all that, I've sailed with a friend a few times and trimmed the jib!

So I was thinking a few tips wouldn't hurt. Plus a few ideas on what could go wrong on a beautiful non-stormy day.
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Old 16-11-2012, 12:41   #25
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Re: Blue Water Survival

You bring up a really good point. For me the prudent thing to do is read, research, talk to others, and figure out how to approach this systemically and holistically. Then plan, do, revise, do more. It is a never ending loop, playing out what-ifs, and then addressing them as appropriate.

Ideally people do this one step at a time, slowly until they are comfortable with their particular risk management.

I'm a little anal. We just got a little 20' day sailor last year, but we sail in the PNW where the water is really cold, and any time in the water can be dangerous. So we walk through all the scenarios we can imagine, and address them. I leave my cell phone on the boat so my kids can call 911 when it is just me and them and I am out for some reason. We have a boarding ladder. I keep a VHF attached to me. All of us have whistles attached to our PFDs. We have tethers for when me and the kids go forward. We review, but not yet drill (I know! Soon) on what happens when someone goes over. And on and on. I feel like we will never be done thinking about this. Hopefully we never need it.

All this on a little boat with no holes in the hull at all - no thru-hulls, a transom hung rudder, it floats even when flooded, etc. Just wait until we get something just a little bit complicated.
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Old 16-11-2012, 15:50   #26
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Re: Blue Water Survival

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post

(...) Most masts today are deck stepped, generally everything goes over. If you don't have a spare spinnaker or whisker pole, your not in much of a shape to rig a jury rig. (...)
If there is only on pair of uppers and single lowers, then yes.

A good reason to venture off in a boat with two-a-side lowers - each one led to its own chainplate.

Yes, I was referring to the alternator - start the engine to provide power for the pumps. These are electric and they pump more with higher voltage. Also - each of ours sips 15A of juice per hour (30A) total. Solar panels no help if you hit at night or on a rainy day.
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Old 16-11-2012, 15:53   #27
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Re: Blue Water Survival

I was out at the boat today and realized I forgot to mention two other potential problems for good old boat owners. One is the raw water intake and hose, and the other is the pump out hose on the head. I have actually seen a boat sink due to the head hose. Fortunately for the owner, the boat was at the marina on the Eastern Shore of Virginia where I bought my boat at the time. During low tide, our keels are in the mud, and that's what saved his boat.
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Old 16-11-2012, 16:10   #28
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Re: Blue Water Survival

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Solar panels no help if you hit at night or on a rainy day.
The point is that some folks have outboards without alternators. So if you have say a 200 watt solar panel, try and keep a battery or 2 totally charged in case of an emergency on a rainy night ,in the dark, or at any other time....
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Old 16-11-2012, 16:11   #29
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Re: Blue Water Survival

Maybe there are two types of people: call them warriors or worryiers. The warrior will try to save the boat no matter what (and if under-budgeted, will go to sea without the button) while the worryier will just hit the button (they will never go to sea without one in the first place).

In each case the matter at hand gets addressed, which is actually all that matters.

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Old 16-11-2012, 16:16   #30
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Re: Blue Water Survival

Yachting Monthly have made a series of very informative videos on this subject. Been posted before but worth watching.

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