Aluminum Boat

[surfmachine]

Ahoy hpeer, do you often see alloy hulls like this?
Keith..................

[hpeer]

I've only looked at 3 alloy boats. Two were quite new, this one was about 25 years old and had a long history including drug running and confiscation.

Of the three:

One was built wonderfully but designed by a madman.
One was designed wonderfully but built by a committee of madmen
One was designed wonderfully, built wonderfully, and run into the ground but a series of madmen.

I finally concluded that we could not afford to buy any alloy boat we could afford, there was always a very good reason they were that cheap.

Not that it can't be done, I could not do it on my time schedule and with the distances involved to go see boats.

FWIW at the time we had Ted Brewer on retainer. I showed him the pic I posted. He thought that there must have been something wrong with the alloy used for the proper alloy should be "almost inert" in salt water. When I looked closer at the boat I found a patch on the opposite side in the same place, so it was likely something in the design.

This was a French Trisalu design and the wife was really taken with it, as was I. But there was just so much wrong. It was just a hull full of junk.

[surfmachine]

Gee Hpeer, sounds serious?
this boat I am buying looks to be first class, everything that I have chaecked has come up as A1 !!!
So I hope that the out of water survey shows the same results, but only physically checking it will tell? It is a round bilge hull, professionally made by feltz shipyard in hamburg, there is some slight pitting on the bronze propeller due to 9 months time spent on a mooring in a fresh water river in New zealand, according to the owner!!

It was certainly, not a cheap boat, one of the most expensive yachts I looked at.
I will let you know how I go when i get back to Langkawi.

Thanks from Keith.

[surfmachine]

Oh, and the motor uses 1 litre of oil per 200 hours, apparently this is within the limits as set by the mercedes manual, at 1% oil consumption per litre of diesel used. It uses 400 litres of diesel in 200 hours which would allow, which would allow 4 litres of oil use!
Does this seem ok, as it actually only uses 1 litre of oil out of the 6 litres in the crankcase, in between oil changes?
what do you reckon?
Thanks from Keith.

[David M]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Of the three:

One was built wonderfully but designed by a madman.
One was designed wonderfully but built by a committee of madmen
One was designed wonderfully, built wonderfully, and run into the ground but a series of madmen.

I would not say all aluminum boats were designed by one madman. Mine was designed by two, Sparkman & Stephens for the now late CEO of a major US company.

With an aluminum hull you must learn what to do and what not to do relating to electrolysis and corrosion...and then if you obey the rules, you will be fine. Aluminum is a wonderful material for a boat but you must treat it right.

Avoid painting an aluminum hull at all costs...unless you find great pleasure in chasing down blisters. And when you do find a blister, get at it real quick. They spread like cancer.

One of the reasons we have custom aluminum boats is because molds are so expensive to make. You have to make a few hulls just to break even on a mold.

[surfmachine]

Hi David, the same guy has owned this alloy yacht for 15 of its 19 years, and he has done all the right things as far as i can see and from what he has told me!
what are some of the right things, david?
Keith...........

[Steve Pope]

Hi Keith, We are "STILL"waiting for our replacement coupling, ho hum! I am curious as to which fresh water river he refers to, can only think of Keri Keri or perhaps he thinks Whangarei is fresh water, not, except after heavy rain, and why that would have any effect on a bronze prop as it is more noble than the alloy hull, maybe he didn't replace its zinc, because if the shaft bearings are rubber /plastic and with the type of coupling fitted the shaft /prop are probably isolated from the rest of the boat so it should have its own zinc. I had an alloy prop when we bought Gwalarn it looked good until we sandblasted the hull and all the filler that the previous owner had put in to fill up the holes. It was like swiss cheese! It was isolated from the rest of the boat and didn't have its own zinc. Hope all is going well, don't get paranoid re the maintenance, just be cautious. David M I endorse the fact that paint and alloy don't mix well.

[CFR]

Hi to all i also own a alumium boat , a Marimba 44 built 1980 in Germany and i just bought a year ago. For me it is perfect choice because i like metal... all corrosion i found is cosmetic. the hull is painted in and outside in a 2 K paint and yes there are spots which is have to repaint now, but after 30 years i do expect that.. I using a special metal paint in 1 K which is suitable for direct application and is use for buoys, steel bridges and containers.

I love not to worry about any deck or keel rudder post joints, or blister. I take a sander and i have a bare and solid surface.... I weld in a thruhull or close one and it is tight. no rotten sandwich deck or corroded chain plates. all my tanks are welded in and forming a double bottom so even if really hit a rock and puncture my hull i will loose my drinking water only or some diesel. i have 3 welded in watertight section etc etc.


Have a look for Reinke , Feltz ( from Hamburg where i am living) and Dutch boats like Hutting, Atlantic, Bestevaer, van de Stadt, Staddesigne etc. Wilfried Erdmann, the Dashews etc are going for Aluminium so if you can affod go for it.

One nice thing is that you really can bring a metal boat back to new by sandblasting and painting.... and a good 2 K paint will shine more then any gelcoat even without polishing and waxing etc.

But try to avoid steel , especially old ones. A new steelhull can be used from 50 feet , below 50 it will be to heavy and only with a top blasting and paint system on the inside it will last 50 years. i never have seen a rust free steel hull after 20 years especially on the inside where you never can sandblast again. outside is easy.

[surfmachine]

Hi CFR, this alloy yacht I am buying was made by feltz in 1990, in Hamburg, it is a Feltz skorpion IIA. Do you know them? Waht is your opinion of them?

Hi steve, sorry to hear of your immobility! I will ask him about the spot where he left the boat and had the prop pitting.
All the best from Keith

[CFR]

Hi Surfmachine, yes i know them and i just talked with them because i might ask them to built me a alumium harddoger. Small professionel yard only doing metal boats. They supplied several boats for bluewater sailing for germans. Boats esp the old steel one tends to be a little bit heavy, the aluminium ones are better. The yard often building only the hull incl. engine and sometime rmast etc but the internals have been built by others or sometimes DIY owners. So here the quality depends widely.

Feltz also building a lot of commercial boats. Sofar i never heard anything negative about their boats, besides they are solid built ocean going vessels and not fancy and fast weekend cruisers. But this is nothing negative. Sales prices for well maintained boats even after 30 years are still within the 150 -250 k range.
Have a look here

http://www.feltzboote.de/index_flash.html

BoatShop24 - Feltz Boote

and a sistership of mine for sales in NL Zu Verkaufen|BoatShop24.com

[surfmachine]

Hi CFR, the boat I am buying is in your list from Feltz.
Feltz Skorpion 2 Aluminium Segelboote zu verkaufen

So, I am glad that they have a good reputation in Europe, this is an alloy yacht.

The fitout was done in Holland, by professionals from denmark, it is very good and the mast and sail systems are excellent!

Keith.

[CFR]

Hi Keith, looks good and the price is fair i think. my boat is a little bit longer but also some years older and i paid the same. good equipment even a rheinstrom toilet is installed ( new price 1250 euro) one of the best made in germany, spares are still available. go ahead can not do anything real wrong with such a boat.

[surfmachine]

Ahoy mateys, here I have the circumstances surrounding the propeller corrosion from the owner.
"the circumstances of the propeller corrosin were the following:
Zwaantje was moored in the Brisbane River in Brisbane for 6 months. So I had no shore power.
During that time I was living on board, so the solarpanel and windgenerator were working. The water of the river was a mix of fresh- and saltwater, depending on the tide. When I left Brisbane I hauled out Zwaantje and noticed the corrosion at the propeller and that the anode on the propellershaft had nearly gone completly. This happened in unusally short time and was not expected.
After replacing the anode and leaving the Brisbane waters everything turned back to normal and the corrosin stopped.
I think it has something to do with the water. Something has eaten the propeller anode very rapidly. I think it will not happen again, specially, if you have an eye on the anode when you anchor long term in rivers."

These are some pictures from a sister ship on the hard.
Cheers from Keith.

[svAbbeyGale]

I am glad that I have an aluminum boat, averted near disaster, if it were glass it would be at the bottom of the ocean, no doubts. That being said, I have looked at the Millie site great boat, great equipment, but very expensive, probably cost way more to build though. Generally on Aluminum Boats, I am a second generation Aluminum boat owner, my boat is older than my dads was its a 1978 tore the wood deck off replacing with Al, there was some galvianic action, where the stainless fasteners met the flange on the deck, from a realistic perspective, the corrosian could have went on 40 more years at the same rate and not been a problem, its better to have fittings welded to deck, stronger too, but never the less the dissimilar metal corosian above the waterline is minor.
Someone recomended tapping, I tried that had a hollow sound aft of the keel decided that I would drill a hole in the bottom and check thickness then reweld. Scratched the paint first and found that it was farring compound, which sounds different from metal, in short you probably cant measure metal loss with a hammer, white oxidization and significant pitting is a better indication. In short I dont think that there is much to be concerned with with an aluminum boat, never the less for that kind of money have an aluminum welder who builds boats look at it, in addition to a survey.

[surfmachine]

Ahoy abbeygale, thanks for the comments and recommendations!
I am concerned about corrosion on the hull, although I am becomming more relaxed about this issue.
I am pleased to be sailing in a metal hull, very strong.
There is no dissimilar metals in contact, everyhting has plastic washers where stainless fittings are used and duraloc, the insulation paste is used as well as aluminium fasteners.
I will use the tapping and look for fillers and damage.
One of my friends has a ultra sound device that measures metal thickness on aluminium hulls, he is on rbak island, just next door.
The yard manager is also a marine negineer who is very good with alloy and he is going to check the hull as well!
So.... we will see how it all goes?
Cheers from Keith.