Aluminum Boat

[hpeer]

Why not give Ted a call? For a $300 retainer he will gladly consult with you and share his knowledge. There is a fair chance that Ted will know the boat you are looking at and have some comments on its history. I did this and found Ted a great resource. I found Ted to be very direct and concise in his advice.

That being said the alloy used in fabrication is important. Some alloys are for in the hull plating, others for the structure and deck. If you can find out what was used where and check to see if it is correct. The plating may have marks still visible telling you what it is.

Also look at the welding. We looked at a 'home built' boat that we nearly bought. But the welding was very inconsistent as being done over a period of years by numerous workmen without adequate supervision. I looked at a few other alloy boats, professionally built, which gave me a base line for comparison. In the end we rejected the boat for that reason.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by hpeer

That being said the alloy used in fabrication is important. Some alloys are for in the hull plating, others for the structure and deck. If you can find out what was used where and check to see if it is correct. The plating may have marks still visible telling you what it is.

Also look at the welding. We looked at a 'home built' boat that we nearly bought. But the welding was very inconsistent as being done over a period of years by numerous workmen without adequate supervision. I looked at a few other alloy boats, professionally built, which gave me a base line for comparison. In the end we rejected the boat for that reason.

I agree the correct choice of aluminium and professional welding is critical.
The yacht concerned is listed as :
5086 aluminum plating with stiffeners of 6061-T6 aluminum. Frames are spaced every 30 inches and there is no point where stringers are more than 7 inches apart.

If this is correct, the material choice is at least OK

[Eric50]

Hi,

Owning a 53' Aluminium sloop since 2002 and built in 1990, we are very happy with the choice.

But it does not mean that this material is "the best" or "perfect" among the others material.

As with all material, it is a good one provide it has been properly designed and handled during construction (in particular during welding and electrical system installation...).

Our choice was firstly made because we are familiar with the material in term of inspection, maintenance and / or repair, in addtion to the commonly given qualities to this material.

The areas to inspect are the inside bottom of the hull to detect pinholes which can lead to replace (on used boats of course) the plate at the deteriorated location, if the pinholes are numerous and leaking.

Structurally, all the areas (chainplates...) that are subject to alternally orientated efforts can have cracking...which is usually very difficult to repair, generally requiring the full replacement of the cracked part.
This can be detected visually and with dye penetrant testing as well.

The electrical system must be bi-polar type (all the negative lines to be connected back to batteries negative terminal) and free of leaking.

Once the boat is assessed as a sound and good one, the material will give a great confidence in hard times during sailing, and a very easy and simple maintenance (sacrificial anodes and electrical disconnection before leaving the boat...) during a life than can be vey very long without any change in its structural integrity and waterproff ability.

Last advise, the thermal insulation as on all metallic boat, must be well done, no shortcut should be allowed in this domain.

Hope this will help.

[boatman61]

Lets face it... every material has its plus and its minus... Ive owned wood and plastic.... no metals or ferro...
Many people rubbish wood but I love going to sleep in a wood boat... the water on the hull sounds so much sweeter than the plastic smack...
But on reflection in a collision I think woods the best if your holed.... its the only one you can plug effectivly in under 5mins and then carry on sailing..

[Eric50]

Boatman,

I fully agree and there is another parameter in favor of the (solid) wood construction, it is the one that resist the longer to...fire, compare to others material!

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Why not give Ted a call? For a $300 retainer he will gladly consult with you ...
... the alloy used in fabrication is important. Some alloys are for in the hull plating, others for the structure and deck. If you can find out what was used where and check to see if it is correct. The plating may have marks still visible telling you what it is...

Apparently, Ted's consulting fee is now $350.

According to Ted's write-up, "... MILLIE J's construction consists of moderately widely spaced frames with closely spaced longitudinals and will prove to be very strong indeed. 5000 series aluminum alloy is used for her plating and is so corrosion resistant that it does not need to be painted to protect it..."

[andrewsc]

I have an aluminum Garcia 48. It is my first aluminum boat but I am so far very happy with the choice. I have seen the Millie J on Lake Union in Seattle. She is a first rate boat for her size. Systems are very nicely done and nearly new. Good layout for a couple leaving the salon/cabin open. Would not work well for us and 2 kids. Storage is also limited but if you don't carry too many toys with you and are looking for a boat for one or two people she would be hard to beat.

Chris A.

[Jim Cate]

G'Day all,

While this sounds like a quite nice boat, at 250K$ it seems awfully dear, considering size and age. Am I missing something here?

Cheers,

Jim

[clifford sloan]

Warm water in Miami isn't an issue as much as water movement around the hull and amount of pollution in the water. Still backwater areas lead to more grass, polluted water mixed with fresh will increase the barnacles.
If you use the boat often enough maintenance should be what every other area is except those that are in Northern climes. Most of us either DIY or hire a diving service for around 1.25 per foot, per month, dependant on usage.
all the best,
Clif

[Sailing320]

Thank you all for your advice. My next question is a steel boat. If you compare steel with aluminum would they be of equal maintenance cost. I was also looking at a 2007 Langer steel hull that is listed on yacht world. My South Florida boating friends are laughing at me because I am looking at metal boats.

[surfmachine]

Hi, apologies for butting in!
I am about to do an out of water inspection on a 29' fetlz skorpion aluminium boat, launched 1992. Built in the feltz boatyard in hamburg and fitted out professionally in Holland.
A detailed in water survey has not shown any surprises, all very good. Except it has a 32 kg bugel anchor, made in germany, which fouls the self furler when weighing anchor and needs a foot on it to hold the shank down!

What areas should I concentrate on for the hull survey on the hard?

Besides these below.
1. electrolsysis on the rudder
2. cracking around the stern gland
3. chain plate to hull welds
4. corrosion in the bilges
5. replace anodes on hull and rudder and prop shaft..............

It has a full bipolar 12v system, no hull electrical connections with a system for checking battery to hull leakage, 2" insulation in hull and decks, factory installed, plywood covering, new 2 pack hull paint.

I was wondering about the lead in the keel and how it is separated from the alloy keel, which is 15mm thick on the bottom and 8mm thick on the sides. Is this normally a problem, or do you trust the shipyard that constructed her?

Thanks for your advice. I inspect on the 9th march and take delivery on the 12th March. Should I get the hull thickness checked with a ultrasound? The boatyard engineer who normally manages the annual haul out and srevices the yacht has stated that it has a sound hull and is very well maintained!
Keith.

[osirissail]

I would suggest that the two most important things that you can examine - which probably would not be examined by a paid surveyor as they take way too much time - are checking the hull plates.
- - Get a ballpein hammer or some other steel hammer with a round knob on one end of the head. Then start at the bow and work you way back to the stern tapping the hull plates every few inches. You are listening to the sound that the tapping makes. It should ring or have a "solid" tone. If you find and area where the sound/tone is quite different, mark it for further inspection. The tone will change as you encounter internal ribs or other thicker areas. So this is an exercise in learning the sound/tone of good metal plate and thin or eroded plate. You will also discover any areas where collision damage or other denting has been filled with putty and painted over.
- - Secondly, crawl around inside the interior bilge and areas where water may have accumulated. Check to see if the interior has been painted and if the paint is smooth and does not show any raised bubbles or blisters. Also look for any evidence of the white powder which forms when aluminum corrodes especially underneath paint.
- - Hull plating is the big one and if it is eaten away or badly corroded then you are looking at major repairs. Whether that is "worth it" or not can be factored into the price and condition of the rest of the boat.

[surfmachine]

Thank you osirissail! Good advice. I will fine tune my ears!
Have you ever seen evidence of corrosion around the lead ballast where it is encased in the alloy keel in alloy boats?

[osirissail]

Metal boats are wonderful if the owner takes the time and trouble to properly maintain them. Unfortunately, a lot of previously owned ("used steel/aluminum") metal boats are up for sale because the owner cannot or does not have the time and resources to properly maintain the boat. So you only have to be very careful to examine yourself those major areas where improper care manifest.
- - One of the biggest is the hull plating. There are very expensive examination techniques and equipment that can give you a near perfect answer as to the condition of the hull - 0r - you can use old-fashioned techniques that only require a large investment of your own time.
- - If the previous owner does not take the time and trouble to properly repair and re-coat the outside of the boat after scratches or gouges or other mishaps remove the protective paints/coatings from the underlying metal then serious damage can be done over time. I have seen good looking metal boats recently purchased by the new owner and the new owner is sitting on the ground crying when it was discovered that most or a lot of the hull plating has been eaten away from being improperly painted/coated. Surveyors tap here and there in a few places and them move on to other systems - and they most often miss areas of major hull plate damage. It takes someone with the time and inspiration to methodically examine the entire hull. Problems can show up anywhere so only examining one area and ignoring others is not a good idea especially if your money is on the line.

[hpeer]

For aluminum, poke at any white spots, but out of the water only please.