Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-01-2011, 06:01   #16
Senior Cruiser
 
hpeer's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 3,900
Why not give Ted a call? For a $300 retainer he will gladly consult with you and share his knowledge. There is a fair chance that Ted will know the boat you are looking at and have some comments on its history. I did this and found Ted a great resource. I found Ted to be very direct and concise in his advice.

That being said the alloy used in fabrication is important. Some alloys are for in the hull plating, others for the structure and deck. If you can find out what was used where and check to see if it is correct. The plating may have marks still visible telling you what it is.

Also look at the welding. We looked at a 'home built' boat that we nearly bought. But the welding was very inconsistent as being done over a period of years by numerous workmen without adequate supervision. I looked at a few other alloy boats, professionally built, which gave me a base line for comparison. In the end we rejected the boat for that reason.
__________________

__________________
hpeer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 07:38   #17
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Living on dirt waiting for our new yacht to be built.
Boat: Half built Bestevaer.
Posts: 10,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
That being said the alloy used in fabrication is important. Some alloys are for in the hull plating, others for the structure and deck. If you can find out what was used where and check to see if it is correct. The plating may have marks still visible telling you what it is.

Also look at the welding. We looked at a 'home built' boat that we nearly bought. But the welding was very inconsistent as being done over a period of years by numerous workmen without adequate supervision. I looked at a few other alloy boats, professionally built, which gave me a base line for comparison. In the end we rejected the boat for that reason.

I agree the correct choice of aluminium and professional welding is critical.
The yacht concerned is listed as :
5086 aluminum plating with stiffeners of 6061-T6 aluminum. Frames are spaced every 30 inches and there is no point where stringers are more than 7 inches apart.

If this is correct, the material choice is at least OK
__________________

__________________
noelex 77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2011, 14:10   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cherbourg - France
Boat: Le Guen Hémidy, Lévrier de mer, 16 m / 53 ft, "AZAWAKH"
Posts: 129
Hi,

Owning a 53' Aluminium sloop since 2002 and built in 1990, we are very happy with the choice.

But it does not mean that this material is "the best" or "perfect" among the others material.

As with all material, it is a good one provide it has been properly designed and handled during construction (in particular during welding and electrical system installation...).

Our choice was firstly made because we are familiar with the material in term of inspection, maintenance and / or repair, in addtion to the commonly given qualities to this material.

The areas to inspect are the inside bottom of the hull to detect pinholes which can lead to replace (on used boats of course) the plate at the deteriorated location, if the pinholes are numerous and leaking.

Structurally, all the areas (chainplates...) that are subject to alternally orientated efforts can have cracking...which is usually very difficult to repair, generally requiring the full replacement of the cracked part.
This can be detected visually and with dye penetrant testing as well.

The electrical system must be bi-polar type (all the negative lines to be connected back to batteries negative terminal) and free of leaking.

Once the boat is assessed as a sound and good one, the material will give a great confidence in hard times during sailing, and a very easy and simple maintenance (sacrificial anodes and electrical disconnection before leaving the boat...) during a life than can be vey very long without any change in its structural integrity and waterproff ability.

Last advise, the thermal insulation as on all metallic boat, must be well done, no shortcut should be allowed in this domain.

Hope this will help.
__________________
Fair winds
Eric - S/Y Azawakh www.syazawakh.blogspot.com www.yeunet.com/eric
Eric50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2011, 14:19   #19
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 20,221
Images: 2
pirate

Lets face it... every material has its plus and its minus... Ive owned wood and plastic.... no metals or ferro...
Many people rubbish wood but I love going to sleep in a wood boat... the water on the hull sounds so much sweeter than the plastic smack...
But on reflection in a collision I think woods the best if your holed.... its the only one you can plug effectivly in under 5mins and then carry on sailing..
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 06:28   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cherbourg - France
Boat: Le Guen Hémidy, Lévrier de mer, 16 m / 53 ft, "AZAWAKH"
Posts: 129
Boatman,

I fully agree and there is another parameter in favor of the (solid) wood construction, it is the one that resist the longer to...fire, compare to others material!
__________________
Fair winds
Eric - S/Y Azawakh www.syazawakh.blogspot.com www.yeunet.com/eric
Eric50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 08:54   #21
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,592
Images: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
Why not give Ted a call? For a $300 retainer he will gladly consult with you ...
... the alloy used in fabrication is important. Some alloys are for in the hull plating, others for the structure and deck. If you can find out what was used where and check to see if it is correct. The plating may have marks still visible telling you what it is...
Apparently, Ted's consulting fee is now $350.

According to Ted's write-up, "... MILLIE J's construction consists of moderately widely spaced frames with closely spaced longitudinals and will prove to be very strong indeed. 5000 series aluminum alloy is used for her plating and is so corrosion resistant that it does not need to be painted to protect it..."
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2011, 11:59   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Boat: Garcia Passoa 48
Posts: 58
Images: 11
I have an aluminum Garcia 48. It is my first aluminum boat but I am so far very happy with the choice. I have seen the Millie J on Lake Union in Seattle. She is a first rate boat for her size. Systems are very nicely done and nearly new. Good layout for a couple leaving the salon/cabin open. Would not work well for us and 2 kids. Storage is also limited but if you don't carry too many toys with you and are looking for a boat for one or two people she would be hard to beat.

Chris A.
__________________
andrewsc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2011, 13:16   #23
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,467
G'Day all,

While this sounds like a quite nice boat, at 250K$ it seems awfully dear, considering size and age. Am I missing something here?

Cheers,

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2011, 13:28   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Palm Beach, Fl.
Boat: Westerly Corsair 36' "Stargazer"
Posts: 140
Warm water in Miami isn't an issue as much as water movement around the hull and amount of pollution in the water. Still backwater areas lead to more grass, polluted water mixed with fresh will increase the barnacles.
If you use the boat often enough maintenance should be what every other area is except those that are in Northern climes. Most of us either DIY or hire a diving service for around 1.25 per foot, per month, dependant on usage.
all the best,
Clif
__________________
clifford sloan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2011, 17:07   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Boat: Island Packet
Posts: 17
Thank you all for your advice. My next question is a steel boat. If you compare steel with aluminum would they be of equal maintenance cost. I was also looking at a 2007 Langer steel hull that is listed on yacht world. My South Florida boating friends are laughing at me because I am looking at metal boats.
__________________
Sailing320 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2011, 01:48   #26
Registered User
 
surfmachine's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cruising the West coast of Sumatra and the offshore islands, surfing!!
Boat: Feltz Skorpion mark 11A, Aluminium 39' sloop, constructed Hamburg. http://photobucket.com/eloise_01
Posts: 674
Images: 9
Send a message via Skype™ to surfmachine
Re: Aluminum Boat

Hi, apologies for butting in!
I am about to do an out of water inspection on a 29' fetlz skorpion aluminium boat, launched 1992. Built in the feltz boatyard in hamburg and fitted out professionally in Holland.
A detailed in water survey has not shown any surprises, all very good. Except it has a 32 kg bugel anchor, made in germany, which fouls the self furler when weighing anchor and needs a foot on it to hold the shank down!

What areas should I concentrate on for the hull survey on the hard?

Besides these below.
1. electrolsysis on the rudder
2. cracking around the stern gland
3. chain plate to hull welds
4. corrosion in the bilges
5. replace anodes on hull and rudder and prop shaft..............

It has a full bipolar 12v system, no hull electrical connections with a system for checking battery to hull leakage, 2" insulation in hull and decks, factory installed, plywood covering, new 2 pack hull paint.

I was wondering about the lead in the keel and how it is separated from the alloy keel, which is 15mm thick on the bottom and 8mm thick on the sides. Is this normally a problem, or do you trust the shipyard that constructed her?

Thanks for your advice. I inspect on the 9th march and take delivery on the 12th March. Should I get the hull thickness checked with a ultrasound? The boatyard engineer who normally manages the annual haul out and srevices the yacht has stated that it has a sound hull and is very well maintained!
Keith.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	plan.jpg
Views:	270
Size:	32.4 KB
ID:	24215   Click image for larger version

Name:	at sail.jpg
Views:	184
Size:	22.7 KB
ID:	24216  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0276.jpg
Views:	215
Size:	406.1 KB
ID:	24217   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0304.jpg
Views:	164
Size:	410.3 KB
ID:	24218  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0464.jpg
Views:	184
Size:	431.5 KB
ID:	24219   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0470.jpg
Views:	160
Size:	403.7 KB
ID:	24220  

__________________
Keith, "But I was born very young and grew up knowing little of the world!" http://surfmachine-surfmachine.blogspot.com.au/
surfmachine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2011, 06:40   #27
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
Re: Aluminum Boat

I would suggest that the two most important things that you can examine - which probably would not be examined by a paid surveyor as they take way too much time - are checking the hull plates.
- - Get a ballpein hammer or some other steel hammer with a round knob on one end of the head. Then start at the bow and work you way back to the stern tapping the hull plates every few inches. You are listening to the sound that the tapping makes. It should ring or have a "solid" tone. If you find and area where the sound/tone is quite different, mark it for further inspection. The tone will change as you encounter internal ribs or other thicker areas. So this is an exercise in learning the sound/tone of good metal plate and thin or eroded plate. You will also discover any areas where collision damage or other denting has been filled with putty and painted over.
- - Secondly, crawl around inside the interior bilge and areas where water may have accumulated. Check to see if the interior has been painted and if the paint is smooth and does not show any raised bubbles or blisters. Also look for any evidence of the white powder which forms when aluminum corrodes especially underneath paint.
- - Hull plating is the big one and if it is eaten away or badly corroded then you are looking at major repairs. Whether that is "worth it" or not can be factored into the price and condition of the rest of the boat.
__________________
osirissail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2011, 08:08   #28
Registered User
 
surfmachine's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cruising the West coast of Sumatra and the offshore islands, surfing!!
Boat: Feltz Skorpion mark 11A, Aluminium 39' sloop, constructed Hamburg. http://photobucket.com/eloise_01
Posts: 674
Images: 9
Send a message via Skype™ to surfmachine
Re: Aluminum Boat

Thank you osirissail! Good advice. I will fine tune my ears!
Have you ever seen evidence of corrosion around the lead ballast where it is encased in the alloy keel in alloy boats?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0411.jpg
Views:	154
Size:	429.2 KB
ID:	24224   Click image for larger version

Name:	at sail.jpg
Views:	119
Size:	22.7 KB
ID:	24225  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0460.jpg
Views:	139
Size:	411.0 KB
ID:	24226   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0280.jpg
Views:	130
Size:	432.5 KB
ID:	24227  

__________________
Keith, "But I was born very young and grew up knowing little of the world!" http://surfmachine-surfmachine.blogspot.com.au/
surfmachine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2011, 16:56   #29
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
Re: Aluminum Boat

Metal boats are wonderful if the owner takes the time and trouble to properly maintain them. Unfortunately, a lot of previously owned ("used steel/aluminum") metal boats are up for sale because the owner cannot or does not have the time and resources to properly maintain the boat. So you only have to be very careful to examine yourself those major areas where improper care manifest.
- - One of the biggest is the hull plating. There are very expensive examination techniques and equipment that can give you a near perfect answer as to the condition of the hull - 0r - you can use old-fashioned techniques that only require a large investment of your own time.
- - If the previous owner does not take the time and trouble to properly repair and re-coat the outside of the boat after scratches or gouges or other mishaps remove the protective paints/coatings from the underlying metal then serious damage can be done over time. I have seen good looking metal boats recently purchased by the new owner and the new owner is sitting on the ground crying when it was discovered that most or a lot of the hull plating has been eaten away from being improperly painted/coated. Surveyors tap here and there in a few places and them move on to other systems - and they most often miss areas of major hull plate damage. It takes someone with the time and inspiration to methodically examine the entire hull. Problems can show up anywhere so only examining one area and ignoring others is not a good idea especially if your money is on the line.
__________________
osirissail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2011, 11:30   #30
Senior Cruiser
 
hpeer's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 3,900
Re: Aluminum Boat

For aluminum, poke at any white spots, but out of the water only please.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0539small.jpg
Views:	251
Size:	12.5 KB
ID:	24273  
__________________

__________________
hpeer is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
J-B Weld on Aluminum ? unbusted67 Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 12 26-02-2017 04:43
How Are Aluminum Hulls ? Badgerman Multihull Sailboats 21 09-11-2010 03:28
SSB Grounding on an Aluminum Boat Namoian Marine Electronics 34 16-07-2010 09:59
Aluminum Stanchions ? 04 Marine Construction, Maintenance & Refit 24 10-04-2010 18:11
Solar Panels on an Aluminum Boat Namoian Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 7 10-02-2010 22:32



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:46.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.