Agony of indecision (first sailboat - Bav vs Elan)

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

THis is not uncommon, The buyer wants to see commitment. Some will allow you to survey the boat at will , others ( and that includes me) will expect a commitment, for that 10% you then take the boat off the market. The survey is not a means to bargain the price, its a means to establish what you see is what you get. ( ie you have basically made a decision). This is exactly how I sold my boat in France two years ago.

As to Yanmar over Volvo, Ive not found any appreciable difference in spare parts pricing, I have found Volvo parts very easy to order and get quickly often on 24 hour delivery. The same cannot be said for Yanmar.

dave

Surveys cost more than a few dollars/pounds, so if that isn't a gesture of commitment I don't know what is?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Ship2210

Surveys cost more than a few dollars/pounds, so if that isn't a gesture of commitment I don't know what is?

Often allowing a survey, requires time as you need to be present, it involves disruption to both buyer and seller alike, Ive bought boats in teh UK, france, ireland and spain. Always it was the case that the survey was the last thing to be done and was always done after a deposit or agreement to purchase was in place.

If you want to have a trial sail before offering thats different, bring a surveyor around to that.

The buyer always has an out anyway on the survey.

Dave

[skipmac]

Hi Cheshire,

If I understand correctly, to buy the boat

1. You pay a 10% deposit to the seller or broker.
2. The seller will pay to have a survey on the boat.
3. If the survey shows a problem with the boat and you decide not to buy then you lose the deposit?

If this is the case I would not do the deal. What if the survey shows a major problem with the boat? What if the seller lied about the condition of the boat or engine? I would demand a contract that allows you to cancel the deal and the seller refund your deposit if the survey showed problems with the boat.

I do not know the standard procedure in Europe to buy a boat but in the US it goes.

1. The buyer agrees to buy the boat and seller usually requires a deposit.
2. The buyer pays for a survey of the boat.
3. If the survey shows a problem the buyer and seller can renegotiate the price or the seller can agree to fix some or all of the problems found in the survey.
4. If the buyer and seller cannot agree after the survey then the buyer can cancel the deal and the deposit will be returned.

[Cheshire]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Hi Cheshire,
If I understand correctly, to buy the boat
......

Hi skipmac!

Broker offers a second variant:
1. The buyer agrees to buy the boat and seller usually requires a deposit.
2. The buyer pays for a survey of the boat.
3. If the survey shows a problem the buyer and seller can renegotiate the price or the seller can agree to fix some or all of the problems found in the survey.
4. If the buyer and seller cannot agree after the survey then the buyer can cancel the deal and the deposit will be returned.

But with remark that deposit will return only in case of problems that affect the seaworthiness.

As I wrote in the first message am faced with a difficult choice. So any detail are important for me and not only the problems with seaworthiness. In this case I was ready to pay for surveying/examination of this two boats. To permanently weighing all pros and cons and choose mine.

In case of this situation I settled to examine/survey Elan as the seller didn't ask deposit and only in case of negative results came back to Bav with deposit.

Thanks all for discussion and comments

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Often allowing a survey, requires time as you need to be present, it involves disruption to both buyer and seller alike,

Exactly. Even if the buyer is paying for a survey it involves a good bit of commitment from the seller, including taking the boat off the market while the survey and sale are pending.

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Ive bought boats in teh UK, france, ireland and spain. Always it was the case that the survey was the last thing to be done and was always done after a deposit or agreement to purchase was in place.

OK. Sounds like the process in Europe is about the same as the process in the USA.

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The buyer always has an out anyway on the survey.

Dave

I reread Cheshires post. Originally I thought it said he would lose his deposit but now I think he was saying if he paid for the survey he would be spending money he would not get back so why require a deposit as well?

If the deposit is refundable then yes, the survey gives the buyer an out.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Cheshire

Hi skipmac!

Broker offers a second variant:
1. The buyer agrees to buy the boat and seller usually requires a deposit.
2. The buyer pays for a survey of the boat.
3. If the survey shows a problem the buyer and seller can renegotiate the price or the seller can agree to fix some or all of the problems found in the survey.
4. If the buyer and seller cannot agree after the survey then the buyer can cancel the deal and the deposit will be returned.

But with remark that deposit will return only in case of problems that affect the seaworthiness.

As I wrote in the first message am faced with a difficult choice. So any detail are important for me and not only the problems with seaworthiness. In this case I was ready to pay for surveying/examination of this two boats. To permanently weighing all pros and cons and choose mine.

In case of this situation I settled to examine/survey Elan as the seller didn't ask deposit and only in case of negative results came back to Bav with deposit.

Thanks all for discussion and comments

Well it may not matter since you are going for the Elan first, but in the case of the Bavaria I would ask the broker to be very clear on exactly what they mean "deposit will return only in case of problems that affect the seaworthiness". So what do they call seaworthiness? Is a blown up engine unseaworthy? What about bad sails? What about really bad leaks?

What if the plywood deck core is wet? The boat could be seaworthy today if the plywood has not started to rot but it will certainly rot in the future and then the boat would be unseaworthy.

Anyway it sounds like the Elan is a better boat for your needs as long as it passes survey and the engine is in good condition.

Good luck and do let us know how it goes.

[barnakiel]

Bavaria because of the new engine and in-mast furler. Because it is your first boat. Because it is 1999.

b.