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Old 27-05-2015, 09:02   #106
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Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

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Originally Posted by Going Walkabout View Post

...

Basically legal action is an act of war. You need to hire a lawyer because as another poster said you may easily compromise your rights by dealing yourself with the manufacturer. And as with any war strategy.... pick your field of battle (country of jurisdiction) and hit the enemy with everything and without mercy. Who knows if you prove prior knowledge of a defect you could even seek punitive damages. And my guess if the manufacturer receives a law suit claiming criminal wrong doing and seeking real and punitive damages they will set things right immediately if they have half a brain.

... I want to shout....We Won't Take It Anymore.

Good luck.
This rather makes me doubt that you have ever either been military, studied strategy, or have experienced litigation. As Sun Tzu said, in probably the most important advice ever given on the subject of war: "When you surround the enemy, always allow them an escape route. They must see that there is an alternative to death."

Else you will just be paying the lawyers a hell of a lot more money, as they will too. I suppose he could have added the line: "Or else the carrion birds (lawyers) shall be the only victors."

In other words, don't start a nuclear war before the sabres have been well and thoroughly rattled.
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Old 27-05-2015, 09:32   #107
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Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

I only wish such a scenerio could apply to me, and since I never play the lottery, it's very unlikely.

If I were of such a financial status to afford a 1/2 million dollar boat, I most certainly would avail me the benefits of an attorney on retainer, or at the least, an attorney who I could rely upon for advice.

Counseling with an attorney doesn't mean the right thing cannot be accomplished by a willing manufacturer, but it might mean not saying something about running an engine with wild vibrations before noticing cracks ... why did you continue to run the engine MR. ??? ... we think it's an engine problem and we didn't install the engine.

One often doesn't know what the other person hears, wants to hear or interprets what's being said ... or "meant".

Attorney's that you retain, or pay are beholden to you to look out for your interests ... to help protect you or to be your dog in a fight.

I'm not convinced that this thread is on the up & up, but if it is, the OP is potentially playing with fire by trying to resolve the issue as a gentleman and a handshake in such a society as we now have.

If this is not a joke, a few hundred more dollars to consult with an attorney ... which is, no doubt, a relatively small portion of the yearly operating costs of a BRAND NEW 50' long yacht could be the difference of enjoying the yacht or just looking at a yacht sitting in a boat yard, waiting for the day when the boat can be used.

This is why this thread makes absolutely no sense.
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Old 27-05-2015, 09:43   #108
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Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

It's likely the OP can afford a new yacht because he doesn't have an attorney on retainer. Who the hell has attorneys on retainers?
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Old 27-05-2015, 10:19   #109
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Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

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It's likely the OP can afford a new yacht because he doesn't have an attorney on retainer. Who the hell has attorneys on retainers?
Other attorneys?

"Big bugs have little bugs, upon their backs, to bite 'em;
And little bugs have smaller bugs, so on, ad infinitum."
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Old 27-05-2015, 10:30   #110
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Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

usually business people or the very rich ... like someone who can afford a 1/2 million dollar yacht.

Maybe people who deal in making money or people who are subject to litigation from time to time

... anyway, the "retainer", part is not that important ...

Most anyone with substantial monies should, at the least have a "relationship", of a sorts with a trusted attorney(there really are some). The person who helps with things that tend to come up for people of money(unlike me).

He might not be F. Lee Bailey, but someone who is there when your son gets arrested, you renter won't vacate or you wife falls at WalMart.

NOT a super attorney and not often an attorney on an actual constant "retainer".

I mean .... seriously, this is a thread about a boat most of us can't even afford to dream about and a person in need of advice regarding a very costly issue(regardless of how it comes out), asking all us tom-dick & harry types who only wish we could understand that level of dispensable income to buy such a boat for something we can't really deliver .... good ... legal ... advice.

It's one thing to give advice about a botched wax job on a 35 foot sailboat, but I don't care how one cuts it, this is a BIG DEAL and a small misstep could become costly.

WHY is this person posting for advice here?

Maybe his attorney is a 95 year old real-estate attorney who's never seen the inside of a courtroom since who-knows-when.

If this thread is real, he just has to have an attorney ... I mean ... seriously, no attorney? BRAND NEW 1/2 million dollar boat, cracks and bad engine ... no attorney?

Maybe the OP has an attorney, but forgot ... maybe he IS an attorney ... a not-so-good attorney.

No!

I'm more and more certain this is not an honest thread ... it can't be ... it just can't be .... no way

But if it is ... well ... no, it just can't be ... it makes no sense ...
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Old 27-05-2015, 14:48   #111
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Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

Well,
seeing as the foredeck was going to get fixed when the damage somewhere else anything is possible, Snowdrops been missing for a coupla day now so either the joke only held interest for the first day or he's had advice to go quiet.......

Jeff.
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Old 27-05-2015, 15:38   #112
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Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

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It's likely the OP can afford a new yacht because he doesn't have an attorney on retainer. Who the hell has attorneys on retainers?
Criminals, politicians and American cops
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Old 27-05-2015, 15:41   #113
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10 hours at sea after handover major problems

So many just sad replies


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Old 27-05-2015, 16:22   #114
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Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

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So many just sad replies
Yep.

I think the saddest is from those that claim this thread was useless. I am guessing that the OP took away a lot. He knows the problem is serious, or at least potentially so. He knows that he needs to be very careful with what he says here (and appears to have taken it to heart). He knows that simply going with a warranty repair may compromise his ability to demand a new boat or his money back, while leaving him with a depreciated new boat and likely a missed cruising season. He knows that he needs good legal advice before proceeding - and that this forum is not the place to get it. I'd say that is a LOT of very useful advice.

Of course the arguments about attorneys, and assumptions about the OPs wealth, have no place here...

Greg
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Old 27-05-2015, 17:22   #115
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Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

For all we know it may be resolved. My brother had an issue with a new car. It was a very expensive German luxury car that was a redesign with tons of gizmos and features and bordering 6 figures for the car. From day one he had issues. It wouldn't start, you would use the key fob as a key, but when he got it to start it ejected the key fob and kept running (this was before push button starts back in the 90's). It would die at red lights etc. Now he is an attorney and he wrote a letter to the car manufacturer when the dealership failed to resolve the issue. Needless to say, he got all his money back including the interest he paid, down payment etc, and he had to sign a non-disclosure agreement that he wouldn't talk about it with anyone including the press. For all we know the OP could be going with the same deal now, hence his silence. Just a thought.

Rob
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Old 27-05-2015, 19:20   #116
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Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

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A survey of a new boat is even more critical than a used boat IMO. And no one should every buy an expensive used boat without a complete survey. People make boats. People make mistakes. Therefore it is inevitable that some new boats will have mistakes. It is much less expensive to find these mistakes before you leave the dealer. So yes, a survey on a new boat should be expected. And the dealer should welcome the surveyor with open arms. If not, then that's another problem.
Absolutely survey new boats but at this point get a complete survey. You may need the documentation.

Get an attorney and find out what you can about the builder. Again best to know before purchase. I hope this isn't H, now preceded with an M. But let's say it was, you could read about previous litigation and understand that is very possibly the course that will be followed. Meanwhile with other companies you might find others have had issues resolved amicably. Don't accept any half a... solutions. You purchased a new boat and deserve what you purchased. You're experiencing loss of use plus it's depreciating daily.

Move quickly. This isn't a think about it and wait for more to happen situation. And while someone told you it wasn't safe to take off shore, get those statements and any others you've been told or can get in writing. Communicate by email where you can, rather than phone. Document every call you've made to this point with day and time and who you talked to. Go back through phone records if you must. Cases like this end up with a lot of who said what to whom and documentation is critical.

We have purchased new boats and had no problems. However, we've chosen builders very carefully and they've all been surveyed before we accepted delivery. If it wasn't a production boat, then we had a surveyor on site regularly throughout the build.
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Old 27-05-2015, 19:21   #117
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Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

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Im putting my money on a company that starts with B or J.

Again as in previous threads I am happy to be the bookie if anyone wants to start placing bets.
So you're giving the field vs. those two letters? Oh I'd definitely make that bet with you if betting was legal that is.
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Old 27-05-2015, 21:13   #118
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Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

Did the OP take a powder?
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Old 28-05-2015, 01:07   #119
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Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

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Did the OP take a powder?
^^^^
Celestial Sailor:

What I think happened is that the OP took on board all the suggestions to 1) lawyer up and 2) not write about what's happening in order to not jeopardize his negotiations. Anyhow, I hope so.

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Old 28-05-2015, 02:13   #120
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Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

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Originally Posted by Fulmitz View Post
For all we know it may be resolved. ........... Needless to say, he got all his money back including the interest he paid, down payment etc, and he had to sign a non-disclosure agreement that he wouldn't talk about it with anyone including the press. For all we know the OP could be going with the same deal now, hence his silence. Just a thought.

Rob
Thats what happened with the Moody skeg failure business... bloke who lost his boat settled out of court and nothing more was ever said about it.

I knew a bloke who bought a new Catalina maybe 15 years ago.. give or take. Developed osmosis in under 12 months.... bad batch of resin or somesuch....handed her back and got a new one.
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