Unfortunate turn!

[boredinthecity]

Mario

a web site for you to have a look at

http://www.vmraq.org.au/ourhistory.asp

in part these reads

Air Sea Rescue Association was first formalised in 1977, and effected it? name change to VOLUNTEER MARINE RESCUE ASSOCIATION QLD. INC. in January of 1990.
Whilst Marine Rescue is not new (Since Man Built Ships), Units were first formalised in 1965 at Point Danger and Mackay, followed shortly by Southport.
This development of Units then continued throughout the State, generally based on perceived needs by local communities. These Volunteer services are provided by people from all walks of life.

Its not their JOB it is a service that they provide to the community

[boredinthecity]

Mario

Another set of people that do rescues here
http://www.coastguard.com.au/main.htm

Is it their job to rescue peole who think that saftey is a joke

[boredinthecity]

Mario

I understand your concerns about unnecessary suffering, this is a crusing forum lets get back to water

Drowning
In 2000 an estimated 450,000 people drowned, making it the second leading cause of unintentional injury death globally after road traffic injuries.

97% of all drowning deaths occurred in low and middle-income countries. The Western Pacific and South East Asia regions account for 60% of the mortality and DALYs (disability adjusted life years).
source
http://www.developmentgateway.com.au...ng/en/pid/1179

Is this funny

[Alan Wheeler]

Wow up here guy's. Now one thing this site ain't going to become is a mud slinging site. I have stated that before and I know Gord and the creater of this place ain't going to let it happen either.
OK, SO BOTH SIDE'S of this argument are at fault. Me included. Lets tone all this down.
NO ONE here needs to justify or be justified as to their carreers of boating, nor to their computer abilities with a site or whatever.
EVERYONE is included here, no matter what skills, what experiance what age, what ever. ALSO,
PAT AND ALI ARE NOT THE TARGETS HERE. They just happend to make themselves famouse, infamouse, whatever, by making their site a public domain. IT is NOT them personally that is being targeted. It is the nievity to experiance that is.
Now I am not belittling ANYONE here, but Mario and CraigC, honestly, can you answer this? What do you do when faced with 50kts and 50ft sea's. Have you ever experianced that? Just come and sail through our Cookstraight or Oz's Bass straight in what would be 75% the norm of weather down here. And before you ask, yes I have. But first time as crew. I needed to be taught by someone with experiance on what and how to do it, before I attempted it myself. I feel a little more bullit proof with my 45fter, but I have a cousing that sails this stretch with his family, at night in a trailer sailer. He has done so for years, is very experianced and they all love it, especially when it does get ruff.
I am sorry guy's, but you just simply can not ever understand the danger you place yourselves and rescuers in, untill you experiance such conditions. BUT maybe your do, and I am NOT questioning your abilities. BUT, Pat and Ali have left themselves wide open for critisim when Pat does such and inconcievable thing such as camaflouge a rescue Item. It leaves me dumbfounded. It's so stupid, I am at the point of wondering if infact all they write is real, or just a series of writeings to envoke comment.

Now, LETS ALL calm down here and learn from each other. I for one still have LOTS to learn and I can learn it from everyone that participates here, no matter what their experiance. So instead of arguing, how bout we all add some positive bent towards this thread.
I am darned if I am going to let this place, that I have made my Home page, become nasty like one other site that was once famouse as a BB. It is all but destroyed now and it is sad. And the reason? because ones started blaming others for things that never actually happend. It was softeware related.

Gord, if you like, please comment on my Post. Am I out of line here???

[Mario]

I once took a look at the US maritime something about boat accidents. It had information accidents in the US and more than 90% of those occurred with small power boats, in fact, just like the one I own! And that's not only due to lack of experience, but to lack of responsability, alcohol, drugs, and others just accidents that can happen to anyone.

As for sailing boats, there were as I recall one or two fatilities, in one whole year, for a country like the US, that is huge.

So, if we have anyone to blame then blame it on the power boats, for which accidents are easier to occur mainly due to high speed.

And keep in mind that they consider heart attacks and that kind of stuff as an accident, when in fact it's not really the same as drowning due to your stupidity or poor decision.

As for the ones whose "job" is to rescue others, I continue to state that it's a job. They do it cause they want to.

I'm a healthcare professional, and I continue to take care of people regardless of their stupidity, even when they don't follow my advices. I try to educate people as well as I can in relaion to my professional field, but I don't turn my back on them just because they live as they want.

That's why I started writing in this forum. I like positive criticism. pat and Ali shouldn't probably started their voyage like they did. They should probably have bought another boat, etc etc.

But they are out there now, so we should give our advices (not mine as i'm even more inexperienced as they were when they started) support and show them that even if they made a mistake, there is always a way to deal with adversities and there is always room to learn.

[mariog]

this is getting good...

where's my pop corn

[CSY Man]

To me, it's more important to deal with global warming and these weather patterns changes we're seeing (not to mention all the wars that kill so many innocent people) than being worried or even discuss two guys for their actions.

Excellent, then start a thread on those subjects instead of defending the stupid actions we have been reading about.

As for the rescures just doing their job and it is their duty, etc.

Not so sure.

A volunteer or proffesional rescuer is putting his or her life on line in case of an ACCIDENT, not to rescue people from their own stupidity.

I know, I was an ambulance bush pilot in Alaska and many times I flew out in the snow storms over the tundra with a doctor or nurse to save some people that had a snow-mobile accident in the middle of the night when they were drunk and crazy.

Easily avoided, yet me and my crew put our life on line to save their stupis arses..

Perhaps I am just conservative or old fashioned, but when I go sailing these days, I make sure that all possible preparations are done and complete so I won't have to ask for help, or put somebody else at risk, unless of course it is a real bona-fida emergency.

Guess I am just being considerate.

.

[boredinthecity]

Back to Pat & Ali and the log 11 July

So going back a few days we motored through the night and by morning had come to the Wide Bay bar crossing. It seems to have a pretty notorious reputation around these parts and just a few weeks ago flipped a 42' catamaran over, so we were paying extra attention on this one. As the sun came up we suddenly found that we were just one of about ten boats that were heading for the bar. Apparently there is an anchorage nearby where all the boats had been waiting through the night for the morning flood tide. So everybody basically filed in one after the other, a couple of boats even leaving a sail up while they went through. The bar has one section called the Mad Mile and even though we were going through at the perfect time and with very little swell you could still get a sense of how ugly an area it could be.

My take on this:

They have learnt from Yamba lessons including how the bars operate, as well as respect for local knowledge. Anyone who doesn’t know the bars on the east coast could learn a lot from this passage. Now they have been hanging with local up north with good local knowledge.

Paul

[Alan Wheeler]

Mario, you have to realise that not all rescue organisations around the world, are like that of the USA. Here in NZ, they are voluntary. Sometimes they are people just like you and me, that are close to the scene. And actually, by maritime law, fellow boaties are required to offer assistance to those in truoble.
We have an Airforce that takes care of SAR's further offshore and a small HQ that has paid staff, to do the co-ordination of a SAR. But this comes at the expense of us, the taxpayer and we are a small country with limited funds.
Also, it is often a private vessel/ship close by that has to do the actual rescue. Especially out in the Pacific. You can't just land a plane and it is often way out of range for a Helicopter. Our Navey is called upon to do deep southern ocean rescues, but it often day's or weeks before they can be on scene. So thus the next point to consider. Maybe rescue is not going to be possible in time. This may come at a cost to the persons/crew's life.
And the third point, should the vessel be lost, then maybe insurance, (if it is insured) will cover the loss. But that has an affect on what you and I have to pay for our insurance.
And then I guess the last point is, if it isn't insured, then it could be the loss of everything the owner has, including the dreams.
Just something to think about.

[Alan Wheeler]

Mario, you have to realise that not all rescue organisations around the world, are like that of the USA. Here in NZ, they are voluntary. Sometimes they are people just like you and me, that are close to the scene. And actually, by maritime law, fellow boaties are required to offer assistance to those in truoble.
We have an Airforce that takes care of SAR's further offshore and a small HQ that has paid staff, to do the co-ordination of a SAR. But this comes at the expense of us, the taxpayer and we are a small country with limited funds.
Also, it is often a private vessel/ship close by that has to do the actual rescue. Especially out in the Pacific. You can't just land a plane and it is often way out of range for a Helicopter. Our Navey is called upon to do deep southern ocean rescues, but it often day's or weeks before they can be on scene. So thus the next point to consider. Maybe rescue is not going to be possible in time. This may come at a cost to the persons/crew's life.
And the third point, should the vessel be lost, then maybe insurance, (if it is insured) will cover the loss. But that has an affect on what you and I have to pay for our insurance.
And then I guess the last point is, if it isn't insured, then it could be the loss of everything the owner has, including the dreams.
Just something to think about.

[Mario]

Come on people. You seem not to fully understand all i'm saying.

I agree with you when it comes to safety measures and safe boating above all.

Although I don´t sail offshore I operate my power boat which I realise is very prone to accidents with family and friends, and I always take all the safety measures before and during our rides, for being the owner I am responsible for theirs and my life.

But when it comes to anyone from the other side of the world, that I don't know, never met, doing what P&A did, I just find interesting that they are doing it. I surely can't believe those two are such ignorants as they pretend to be from what they write on their website. They must completely exagerate. Anyway, I like reading their logs, no matter who they are or what they know.

And to me the idea that a sailor/cruiser has to be an artist, a phylosopher or erudite is just nonsense. And from reading some of your posts and not being a sailor but more of an outsider, that's the idea it gives.

And that bothers me...

[TigerPaws]

Having followed Pat & Ali's adventures (and misadventures) sense the begining and being a full time cuiser myself I can say that I find their logs interesting, frighting and humorous. Yes I will give them a lot of credit for making it as far as they have gone so far and for doing what most only deam of, sailing off into the sunset. But on the other hand they are pushing the limits of their luck, with no experience and no real clue as to what they are doing it will be a miracle if they do not have a serious mishap or worse they are never heard from again.
The sea should be met with great respect and they (Pat & Ali) do not have that attitude, yes they have been very lucky so far and I do hope their luck holds out but I doubt it will. Not having the proper respect for the sea will do nothing but get you killed.
Having sailed our Lagoon 570 cat from Florida to South America in 2003 where we waited for the Hurricane season to end then back to Florida and across the Atlantic to the Med. for the next Hurricane season then back again to Florida where we are refitting our boat so we can be off again I speak with some experience. I will continue to follow their adventures and misadventures but I will not be surprised if someday the site goes down for good.
I do whish them the best of luck because they are going to need it.
As for their lack of respect for the places, people and cultures they are visiting, well what do you expect of the Gen X crowd.

Michael
SeaQuest OE
Lagoon 570 refitting here in Florida

[TigerPaws]

Having read their latest log entries I can not help but wonder what may happen to them should they take a lighting strike and loose all of their electronics?

"We did manage to get another boat project worked on. In the never ending search for the source of miscellaneous water leaks we removed one of the ceiling panels today and found the spot, the fiberglass base that was made for the compass. Wish they hadn't even installed a compass, we've never used the thing and now we find a leak because of it."

Do they EVEN know how to use a comapss?

Michael
SeaQuest OE
Lagoon 570 in Florida for refitting

[austi012]

Sure they don't need to read a compass. They just follow the road signs.

Except they're not in English, which is just so vexing.

[theloneoux]

If you want to understand the ethos and zeitgeist of those who are critiquing the bumfuzzle.com blog then compare www.bumfuzzle.com to www.atomvoyages.com. You will find an unbridgeable chasm that stretches between the mindset of James Baldwin of Atom and Pat of Bumfuzzle. I - I am a mid-thirties beginning cruiser hoping to circumnav soon - subscribe to the more humble approach of Atom and shrink from the superficiality of Bumfuzzle. Nevermind the insipid banality of Pat & Ali, what I cannot stomach is the ignorant style with which they - Pat & Ali - conduct themselves in regard to the world at large. My desire to travel the world is largely based on wanting to experience nature in her raw state (at a pace with which time might actually feel a little slower), people and culture that are closer to the earth and whose attitudes and lifestyle are less corrupted by the bombastic media complex that permeates so much of life nowadays. I look forward to the refreshing simplicity of other places and as such I am not rushing to major cities to look for experiences that I could just as easily have, and pay for, without ever leaving the city. Life is a long lesson in humility – I am afraid Pat might have a stern taskmaster from whom the lesson will be learned.